On 04 Apr 2014, at 19:32, Telmo Menezes wrote:
On Thu, Apr 3, 2014 at 8:55 AM, Bruno Marchal <[email protected]>
wrote:
On 02 Apr 2014, at 23:03, LizR wrote:
On 3 April 2014 05:56, Chris de Morsella <[email protected]>
wrote:
-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of [email protected]
It is the belief that the scentists can be trusted to do the
research they
are supposed to do in a scientifically responsible way, vs. the
belief in
the conspiracy theory that the entire scientific field has been
hijacked by
ultra left wing environmental pressure groups.
Saibal
A conspiracy theory that has become spread through massive funding
by the
big holders of fossil carbon reserves -- seeking to protect the
future
valuation of those reserves, which has a large impact on the current
valuation of their carbon holdings. An eminently rational (if
cynical)
motive, for these narrow carbon interests, but one that has sowed
confusion
and doubt, using the same "junk science" (and "left wing hijacked
science")
accusations that were perfected by Big Tobacco in the preceding
decades. It
worked then for Big Tobacco and this same strategy of sowing
falsehoods, is
working now for the big carbon interests.
Exactly. It's even been making some headway in the interests of
denying evolution, for God (as it were) knows what reason.
That is why I don't think politics is possible as long as
prohibition continue. It has been used as a sort of Trojan horse for
bandits, and they will sell you what they want.
Stopping prohibition will not be enough. We must separate politics
from money.
Agreed, but I think there's a subtly here -- politics in necessarily
about money, because money is the fundamental tool that we have to
manage resources, unless someone figures out a way to make communism
work. There's nothing fundamentally good or evil about money, it's
just a neutral tool that can be used both ways.
I agree, the problem is black money only, and grey money. But I still
believe that lobbying should be without money. If not you get big
pharma, and big tobacco, voting for you. Electoral campaign should be
payed with taxes, and be minimal, and equal for all party/politicians.
I see the problem as more one of managing incentives. People react
to incentives. I strongly believe that the pollution problem could
be mitigated quickly if the free market had the incentive to do so.
Carbon credits are a horrible idea, because they reinforce bad
behaviours without creating the incentives that can actually solve
the problem.
If an objective cost can be calculated for the damage that certain
companies cause to the environment, then let's charge them for this
and re-distribute this money directly to the people, with no special
rules or distinctions. Just a simple division. None of this money
should ever fall under the control of politicians. Then the
companies have an incentive to solve the problem, and less people
have an incentive to lie.
I am not sure that this is really realist, especially if the problem
are big, mundial, and unaffordable by most companies responsible. Then
if you have the (black) money, you can dilute the responsibility
efficaciously.
But again, my point was concerned with the "origin" of bad dishonest
politics and its maintenance by special corporate interests.
If a politicians can be proved to have lied on technical matter should
be fired. Perhaps.
This should be purely handed by the police and the courts, in the
same way that they are used to place a cost on other undesirable
behaviours. If instead this money falls under the control of
politicians, we now have two problems.
OK.
Bruno
Best,
Telmo.
We should vote on ideas and not humans. We should find a way to
prevent democracies against propaganda, if not corporatism.
The green should be ally with the antiprohibitionists. I do think
that "prohibition" is the deep reason of possible climate
perturbation, and economy.
Like the abandon of rationality in the "spiritual" is the deep
reason of why the non-sensical prohibition has seem conceivable today.
Bruno
http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/
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