Re: cannabis, cancer and mechanism, and climate.

[Bruno Marchal]

On 20 Apr 2014, at 05:15, Samiya Illias wrote:
Chris, I was replying to Spudboy100 who refuses to consider the  
Quran because of the 'jihadis' 'behavoir' . The point I was trying  
to make is that some people, from all religious persuasions, do  
strange and at times horrible things. We need to look past people  
and their behaviours, and examine the religious texts to evaluate  
for ourselves what it is. We are all responsible for our own beliefs  
and actions. We come to this world alone, we will leave it alone.  
What religious label we are born in, which religious label or not we  
choose, eventually we all must face death alone, and whatever's  
beyond that. Wishing it away because some people are poor  
ambassadors or poor communicators of the message, won't change  
things according to our wishes. We humans have intelligence and a  
vast wondrous world full of thoughts and ideas and science and  
signs... we must explore everything we can for its own merit before  
discarding it.
On this Everything list, I see earnest seekers exploring almost  
everything, but somehow they stop short of scripture, especially  
Quran. I understand much of this has to do with a filtered view of  
history, long-held prejudices, popular media, as well as the actions  
of people who poorly understand or use the religion, etc. The thing  
is, to understand everything, we must be willing to explore  
everything.

I read many "sacred" texts, including different translations of the  
Quran. But I found some text more convincing, or more heart-vibrating  
than others. I studied three years of classical chinese to be more at  
ease with the taoist proses, notably.
For the Quran, some verses are formidable and can talk to my heart,  
but not so for other verses, and muslim scholars were a bit  
contradictory on how to interpret it.

But the main reason why we stop at scripture is only that they are  
scripture. They are human very imperfect way to address the divine,  
and, by my own faith, contradicts the deepest intuition I have on that  
matter, which is that religion cannot be normative and allow  
"authorities" to think for me, or intercede between me and the "good  
lord".

Some people seems to accept that "intercession", and I don't want to  
judge them. May be it can make sense in some survival strategies, but  
it is no more religion to me.

Bruno




To answer your question, you may find these versions of history  
different from what you may know about Muslim conquests:
http://lostislamichistory.com/did-islam-spread-by-the-sword/
http://lostislamichistory.com/?s=crusades
http://lostislamichistory.com/the-crusades-part-3-liberation/

Samiya


On Sat, Apr 19, 2014 at 11:44 PM, Chris de Morsella <cdemorse...@yahoo.com 
> wrote:
Samiya - Has Islam never participated in perpetrating violence  
against others; in conquest?

Islam is as guilty as the other Abrahamic faiths, as an agent of  
violence in human history.

Chris



From: everything-list@googlegroups.com [mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com 
] On Behalf Of Samiya Illias
Sent: Saturday, April 19, 2014 9:57 AM
To: everything-list@googlegroups.com


Subject: Re: cannabis, cancer and mechanism, and climate.



People do many strange and horrid things in the name of religion or  
nation or some other pretext. Violence has been perpetrated by the  
Crusaders, by the Nazis, by the Buddhists in Bhutan, by the Hindus  
in the Kashmir, Babri Masjid, by the Jews in Palestine, the Soviets  
in Afghanistan, the US and Allies in Iraq, and the list goes on...

One must look beyond the people and evaluate religions for their  
message.



Samiya



spudboy100 wrote: Well, I am more focused on human behavior, and  
what happens to humans in this world. If such a spiritual  
intoxication leads to an ecstatic, plunge into violence, a "holy"  
violence, then a reasoning person may pause, and ponder what is  
lost, what is gained, and what is the damage done? Rather than focus  
on the internal realm of self, I concentrate, for now, on behavior.







On Sat, Apr 19, 2014 at 9:26 PM, <spudboy...@aol.com> wrote:

Well, I am more focused on human behavior, and what happens to  
humans in this world. If such a spiritual intoxication leads to an  
ecstatic, plunge into violence, a "holy" violence, then a reasoning  
person may pause, and ponder what is lost, what is gained, and what  
is the damage done? Rather than focus on the internal realm of self,  
I concentrate, for now, on behavior.

There are many 'interesting' things to learn about Islam only if one  
is willing to look beyond the prejudices.

The more one studies and contemplates on the Quran and the world,  
the more one falls in love with God. It is intoxicating, it's an  
amazing feeling!

-----Original Message-----


From: Samiya Illias <samiyaill...@gmail.com>
To: everything-list <everything-list@googlegroups.com>

Sent: Sat, Apr 19, 2014 11:10 am
Subject: Re: cannabis, cancer and mechanism, and climate.

There are many 'interesting' things to learn about Islam only if one  
is willing to look beyond the prejudices.

The more one studies and contemplates on the Quran and the world,  
the more one falls in love with God. It is intoxicating, it's an  
amazing feeling!



Samiya


On 19-Apr-2014, at 6:12 pm, spudboy...@aol.com wrote:

Interesting, however, religion itself can an intoxicant, with the  
promise of paradise with many, many, willing females, and wine is  
permitted, and eternal life, if one merely, throws caution to wind  
and becomes a shaheed. What are a few years in this valley of tears,  
compared to paradise? An intoxicant indeed for the faithful.

In Islam, consumption of intoxicants are discouraged. The arabic  
word used for intoxicants,  in the Quran, is al-khamr. The root  
alphabets of the word are kh-m-r which means to cover or hide  
something. Intoxicants, it implies, cover the intellect, and thus  
are discouraged

-----Original Message-----
From: Samiya Illias <samiyaill...@gmail.com>
To: everything-list <everything-list@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Sat, Apr 19, 2014 2:42 am
Subject: Re: cannabis, cancer and mechanism, and climate.

The harmful effects of the consumption of intoxicants for the  
individual and its consequent effects on society are observable. The  
bans are in thus in the larger interest. However, if cannabis and  
other drugs have some medicinal benefits, then the research should  
continue to find the correct, beneficial  use of them, as well as  
the side-effects.



In Islam, consumption of intoxicants are discouraged. The arabic  
word used for intoxicants,  in the Quran, is al-khamr. The root  
alphabets of the word are kh-m-r which means to cover or hide  
something. Intoxicants, it implies, cover the intellect, and thus  
are discouraged.



It is explained: [Quran 2:219] They ask you about intoxicants and  
games of chance. Say: In both of them there is a great sin and means  
of profit for men, and their sin is greater than their profit...



The word used for sin also means frustration; tiredness; laziness.  
Thus, I gather, both mind and body eventually suffer from the  
harmful effects of the intoxicant, and thus the negatives far  
outweigh the benefits.



Initially, the believers were advised to pray when in a clear state  
of mind, and not when under the influence of intoxicants: : [Quran  
4:43] O you who believe! do not go near prayer when you are  
Intoxicated until you know (well) what you say,...



Gradually, they were exhorted to refrain from it altogether: [Quran  
5:90] O ye who believe! Intoxicants and gambling, (dedication of)  
stones, and (divination by) arrows, are an abomination,- of Satan's  
handwork: eschew such (abomination), that ye may prosper.



References:

[Quran 2:219] 
http://www.searchtruth.com/chapter_display_all.php?chapter=2&from_verse=218&to_verse=220&mac=&translation_setting=1&show_yusufali=1&show_shakir=1&show_pickthal=1&show_mkhan=1&show_urdu=1



[Quran 4:43] 
http://www.searchtruth.com/chapter_display_all.php?chapter=4&from_verse=42&to_verse=44&mac=&translation_setting=1&show_yusufali=1&show_shakir=1&show_pickthal=1&show_mkhan=1&show_urdu=1



[Quran 5:90] 
http://www.searchtruth.com/chapter_display_all.php?chapter=5&from_verse=89&to_verse=92&mac=&translation_setting=1&show_yusufali=1&show_shakir=1&show_pickthal=1&show_mkhan=1&show_urdu=1





Samiya







On Sat, Apr 19, 2014 at 3:52 AM, meekerdb <meeke...@verizon.net>  
wrote:

On 4/18/2014 7:13 AM, Telmo Menezes wrote:

What society thinks has nothing to do with it, because weak  
correlation-based scientific evidence is used selectively to create  
laws that were desired a priori by some interest group.

That implies some nefarious motive and corrupt use of data known to  
be wrong.  In fact there was no nefarious 'interest group' that  
wanted to ban marijuana or to ban alcohol or to ban heroin.  All  
these bans were initiated by people who believed in the ill effects  
of these substances for individuals and for society.  In many cases  
they had personal experience.  That the bans may have given rise to  
criminal activities to circumvent them, isn't to the point of their  
origin.

Brent

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http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/



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