From: everything-list@googlegroups.com
[mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Samiya Illias
Sent: Saturday, April 19, 2014 8:15 PM
To: everything-list@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: cannabis, cancer and mechanism, and climate.
>> Chris, I was replying to Spudboy100 who refuses to consider the Quran
>> because of the 'jihadis' 'behavoir' . The point I was trying to make is that
>> some people, from all religious persuasions, do strange and at times
>> horrible things. We need to look past people and their behaviours, and
>> examine the religious texts to evaluate for ourselves what it is. We are all
>> responsible for our own beliefs and actions. We come to this world alone, we
>> will leave it alone. What religious label we are born in, which religious
>> label or not we choose, eventually we all must face death alone, and
>> whatever's beyond that. Wishing it away because some people are poor
>> ambassadors or poor communicators of the message, won't change things
>> according to our wishes. We humans have intelligence and a vast wondrous
>> world full of thoughts and ideas and science and signs... we must explore
>> everything we can for its own merit before discarding it.
I agree we all must face death alone. The realization that our personal destiny
is to die, to perish, to be forever gone… is exceedingly hard to accept and is
the fuel that drives all faiths.
On this Everything list, I see earnest seekers exploring almost everything, but
somehow they stop short of scripture, especially Quran. I understand much of
this has to do with a filtered view of history, long-held prejudices, popular
media, as well as the actions of people who poorly understand or use the
religion, etc. The thing is, to understand everything, we must be willing to
explore everything.
Samiya I am going to stand by my statement that Islam has also been spread by
the sword. For example, the conquest of Sassanid Persia and the, that began
with the conquest of Mesopotamia by Arab forces led by Khalid ibn Walidin 633
AD. The Moghul conquest into India another example.
I am also aware of the golden age of Islam, and am especially in awe of Moorish
Spain at its flowering height of poetry, thought, science, philosophy
(including in its scope one of the most important flowering of Judaism and
Jewish culture ever, a fact few Americans are aware of.)
Sure Islam suffered the Crusades, but, for example the Ottoman’s almost took
Vienna and would have swept down through into the heartland of the Rhine river,
if the logistical bottleneck of trying to provision their massive invasion
force (it was huge even by modern standards) had not brought about supply
collapse and plague onto its own forces. Christianity converted just as
bloodily by the sword, all I am pointing out is that Islam – and Islamic
underpinned empires such as the Ottoman or Moghul Empires have been just as
enthusiastic in conquest as their Abrahamic cousins.
Chris
PS I will look at the links you gave.
To answer your question, you may find these versions of history different from
what you may know about Muslim conquests:
http://lostislamichistory.com/did-islam-spread-by-the-sword/
http://lostislamichistory.com/?s=crusades
http://lostislamichistory.com/the-crusades-part-3-liberation/
Samiya
On Sat, Apr 19, 2014 at 11:44 PM, Chris de Morsella <cdemorse...@yahoo.com>
wrote:
Samiya – Has Islam never participated in perpetrating violence against others;
in conquest?
Islam is as guilty as the other Abrahamic faiths, as an agent of violence in
human history.
Chris
From: everything-list@googlegroups.com
[mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Samiya Illias
Sent: Saturday, April 19, 2014 9:57 AM
To: everything-list@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: cannabis, cancer and mechanism, and climate.
People do many strange and horrid things in the name of religion or nation or
some other pretext. Violence has been perpetrated by the Crusaders, by the
Nazis, by the Buddhists in Bhutan, by the Hindus in the Kashmir, Babri Masjid,
by the Jews in Palestine, the Soviets in Afghanistan, the US and Allies in
Iraq, and the list goes on...
One must look beyond the people and evaluate religions for their message.
Samiya
spudboy100 wrote: Well, I am more focused on human behavior, and what happens
to humans in this world. If such a spiritual intoxication leads to an ecstatic,
plunge into violence, a "holy" violence, then a reasoning person may pause, and
ponder what is lost, what is gained, and what is the damage done? Rather than
focus on the internal realm of self, I concentrate, for now, on behavior.
On Sat, Apr 19, 2014 at 9:26 PM, <spudboy...@aol.com> wrote:
Well, I am more focused on human behavior, and what happens to humans in this
world. If such a spiritual intoxication leads to an ecstatic, plunge into
violence, a "holy" violence, then a reasoning person may pause, and ponder what
is lost, what is gained, and what is the damage done? Rather than focus on the
internal realm of self, I concentrate, for now, on behavior.
There are many 'interesting' things to learn about Islam only if one is willing
to look beyond the prejudices.
The more one studies and contemplates on the Quran and the world, the more one
falls in love with God. It is intoxicating, it's an amazing feeling!
-----Original Message-----
From: Samiya Illias <samiyaill...@gmail.com>
To: everything-list <everything-list@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Sat, Apr 19, 2014 11:10 am
Subject: Re: cannabis, cancer and mechanism, and climate.
There are many 'interesting' things to learn about Islam only if one is willing
to look beyond the prejudices.
The more one studies and contemplates on the Quran and the world, the more one
falls in love with God. It is intoxicating, it's an amazing feeling!
Samiya
On 19-Apr-2014, at 6:12 pm, spudboy...@aol.com wrote:
Interesting, however, religion itself can an intoxicant, with the promise of
paradise with many, many, willing females, and wine is permitted, and eternal
life, if one merely, throws caution to wind and becomes a shaheed. What are a
few years in this valley of tears, compared to paradise? An intoxicant indeed
for the faithful.
In Islam, consumption of intoxicants are discouraged. The arabic word used for
intoxicants, in the Quran, is al-khamr. The root alphabets of the word are
kh-m-r which means to cover or hide something. Intoxicants, it implies, cover
the intellect, and thus are discouraged
-----Original Message-----
From: Samiya Illias <samiyaill...@gmail.com>
To: everything-list <everything-list@googlegroups.com>
Sent: Sat, Apr 19, 2014 2:42 am
Subject: Re: cannabis, cancer and mechanism, and climate.
The harmful effects of the consumption of intoxicants for the individual and
its consequent effects on society are observable. The bans are in thus in the
larger interest. However, if cannabis and other drugs have some medicinal
benefits, then the research should continue to find the correct, beneficial
use of them, as well as the side-effects.
In Islam, consumption of intoxicants are discouraged. The arabic word used for
intoxicants, in the Quran, is al-khamr. The root alphabets of the word are
kh-m-r which means to cover or hide something. Intoxicants, it implies, cover
the intellect, and thus are discouraged.
It is explained: [Quran 2:219] They ask you about intoxicants and games of
chance. Say: In both of them there is a great sin and means of profit for men,
and their sin is greater than their profit...
The word used for sin also means frustration; tiredness; laziness. Thus, I
gather, both mind and body eventually suffer from the harmful effects of the
intoxicant, and thus the negatives far outweigh the benefits.
Initially, the believers were advised to pray when in a clear state of mind,
and not when under the influence of intoxicants: : [Quran 4:43] O you who
believe! do not go near prayer when you are Intoxicated until you know (well)
what you say,...
Gradually, they were exhorted to refrain from it altogether: [Quran 5:90] O ye
who believe! Intoxicants and gambling, (dedication of) stones, and (divination
by) arrows, are an abomination,- of Satan's handwork: eschew such
(abomination), that ye may prosper.
References:
[Quran 2:219] http://www.searchtruth.com/chapter_display_all.php?chapter=2
<http://www.searchtruth.com/chapter_display_all.php?chapter=2&from_verse=218&to_verse=220&mac=&translation_setting=1&show_yusufali=1&show_shakir=1&show_pickthal=1&show_mkhan=1&show_urdu=1>
&from_verse=218&to_verse=220&mac=&translation_setting=1&show_yusufali=1&show_shakir=1&show_pickthal=1&show_mkhan=1&show_urdu=1
[Quran 4:43] http://www.searchtruth.com/chapter_display_all.php?chapter=4
<http://www.searchtruth.com/chapter_display_all.php?chapter=4&from_verse=42&to_verse=44&mac=&translation_setting=1&show_yusufali=1&show_shakir=1&show_pickthal=1&show_mkhan=1&show_urdu=1>
&from_verse=42&to_verse=44&mac=&translation_setting=1&show_yusufali=1&show_shakir=1&show_pickthal=1&show_mkhan=1&show_urdu=1
[Quran 5:90] http://www.searchtruth.com/chapter_display_all.php?chapter=5
<http://www.searchtruth.com/chapter_display_all.php?chapter=5&from_verse=89&to_verse=92&mac=&translation_setting=1&show_yusufali=1&show_shakir=1&show_pickthal=1&show_mkhan=1&show_urdu=1>
&from_verse=89&to_verse=92&mac=&translation_setting=1&show_yusufali=1&show_shakir=1&show_pickthal=1&show_mkhan=1&show_urdu=1
Samiya
On Sat, Apr 19, 2014 at 3:52 AM, meekerdb <meeke...@verizon.net> wrote:
On 4/18/2014 7:13 AM, Telmo Menezes wrote:
What society thinks has nothing to do with it, because weak correlation-based
scientific evidence is used selectively to create laws that were desired a
priori by some interest group.
That implies some nefarious motive and corrupt use of data known to be wrong.
In fact there was no nefarious 'interest group' that wanted to ban marijuana or
to ban alcohol or to ban heroin. All these bans were initiated by people who
believed in the ill effects of these substances for individuals and for
society. In many cases they had personal experience. That the bans may have
given rise to criminal activities to circumvent them, isn't to the point of
their origin.
Brent
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