On 08 Jun 2014, at 12:30, Telmo Menezes wrote:
On Sun, Jun 8, 2014 at 6:12 AM, LizR <lizj...@gmail.com> wrote:
On 8 June 2014 15:43, spudboy100 via Everything List <everything-list@googlegroups.com
> wrote:
I do know what I am criticizing, and view Marx and Engels claims in
Manifesto, and Das Kapital as nothing more than deliberate lies to
defer just criticism, especially, when viewed in the light of Marx
and Engels, quotes, journals, and articles. The withering away
concept was deliberately used as sop, to those who Marx knew would
grow weary of state oppression. Just a little longer and then it
will be perfect, everyone will be a Barron, and master of their own
world. The Castro regime still uses it as an excuse for economic
stagnation. As C. Northcoate Parkinson said, "Delay is the most
deadly form of denial."
OK, I take it back. That's a valid viewpoint. (I don't know if there
is evidence to support it?)
I would say that this viewpoint is validated empirically: all
attempts at marxist societies devolved into authoritarianism.
Lenin famously said:
"While the state exists, there can be no freedom. When there is
freedom there will be no state."
I have no reason to assume he wasn't being honest. It's just that it
doesn't work. But it is perhaps incorrect to claim that early
marxist philosophers desired authoritarianism.
It would been unfair to say that they desired authoritarianism. But
they didn't desire democracy either, and did not conceive that the
implementations of their ideas could be done by the people in some
incremental voting way. They missed the importance of democracy.
Democracies are not perfect, and can be very sick, but it is better
than anything else. Whatever the good idea is defended in politics, it
is better to submit it to vote, and even still better when doing this
without propaganda and unfair financial lobbying. Democracies can be
improved, and sick democracies can be cured. Today we need something
like anti-propaganda laws, and anti-special-interest lobbying or
things like that. We need more democracies, not less.
Today our democracies are in peril, not much due to the financial
sphere, but due to the erosion of the separation of powers, which
favor groups of interest again the individual interests of the
majority of individuals.
I don't believe in referenda, except for rare big decisions. Too much
referenda is not democratic. You can influence people too much easily,
by TV or other media, and it is better to vote for the wrong idea, and
then to vote perhaps on some other idea after a serious long period to
better evaluate if the idea was not working or not.
Bruno
Telmo.
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