On 17 Aug 2014, at 07:45, meekerdb wrote:
On 8/16/2014 10:19 PM, LizR wrote:
On 17 August 2014 07:14, meekerdb <meeke...@verizon.net> wrote:
Both consciousness and physics supervene on the computations,
which exist necessarily. Consciousness does not supervene on the
physics.
Yes, I agreed to that. The question was can consciousness
supervene on computations that do not instantiate
any physics? I think not.
Would you mind clarifying this? I'm not what it means that
consciousness can only supervene on computations that instantiate
physics. For example - assuming my brain is doing computations, how
is it instantiating physics? Or did you mean that the brain is a
physical object, and hence instantiated within physics, so to speak?
No I mean you need something to think about that has the consistency
and stabiltiy of an external world. You need to be able to think in
terms of objects, bodies, motions, numbers, perceptions,... Of
course language gives you this, but you have some of it prior to
language which I think is "hardwired" by evolution.
And then the other question is can physics supervene on
computations that do not instantiate any consciousness? I'm not
sure about that.
If I read this arright, which I probably don't, this would be
equivalent to comp generating universes with no observers, which I
imagine is by definition impossible.
Yes, that's what it would mean. But if comp can't generate
universes with no observers
People must keeps in mind the difference between the fact that the UD
does emulates approximations of the local universes, infinitely many
times and with infinitely many variations, and then the internal
phenomenon, driven by the FPI and due to the fact that our
computational states result statistically from whatever emerges and
stabilize our consciousness.
So, in a sense, with comp, you have, well even without comp, all those
"local universe", and many will not have life in it, in which case
they don't interfere with our internal physical realities. But they
still exist in the same sense that 17 exists and is prime.
what does it mean that there were no people (or even jumping
spiders) for most of the duration of the universe?
That we share a very long computation, or a computations sheaf.
And what about distant parts of the universe that we can't observe?
With comp, you have the non justifiable, the non knowable, the non
observable, the non decidable, the non non nameable, but also the non
observable. And those play some roles.
And do we have to actually *be* observing for them to exist?
Comp can be said idealist, but it is not an idealism of that kind. It
is a realism on the computation, taking into account that from inside
we belongs to infinity of computations, and that we are self-
referentially driven by G and G* and their variants.
Do we suppose that they don't exist or do we take or theories of
cosmology that indicate they should exist as proof that there are
observers of them?
A lot of things exists without observers. In many different senses.
Bruno
Brent
But maybe the answer to the previous question will clarify this one.
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