Most people have assumed the truth is upstairs for a long time...
On 20 August 2014 14:07, Platonist Guitar Cowboy <[email protected]> wrote: > Just to get back to the topic for a moment. Do I read correctly that the > difference between Russell and Bruno lies in whether a "raw", in Bruno's > usage, computation in terms of UD* is "actualized" (vs. what precisely? A > kind of "emanating non-raw" computation? This is a bit fuzzy from my pov)? > > Also, Russell's point of view would be appreciated, as is his > input/efforts in general + this thread, and his paper that presents clearly > and accessibly MGA, are, which hopefully goes without saying. Respects and > complements, regardless of these quibbles. If you have no time, Russell; no > worries, just minor concern to continue the exchange. > > Cue the military march music of stoicism, with hyper grave quality: We can > never get to the bottom of these things.. nor would we wish to! Who says > "it's at the bottom" anyway? Maybe "it's upstairs". My fridge certainly, > truly, UD* or some alternate weirdness approved, just* is upstairs*. The > fridge is true. And so is a slice of cheese. And yes, I kid. :-) PGC > > > On Wed, Aug 20, 2014 at 2:27 AM, meekerdb <[email protected]> wrote: > >> On 8/19/2014 4:44 PM, LizR wrote: >> >> On 20 August 2014 04:16, meekerdb <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> >>> If your altered state of consciousness has no self-awareness, is it >>> still "consciousness"? And there's self-consciousness, i.e. being aware >>> you are thinking. So it's not 'fading' qualia, it different categories of >>> consciousness. I'd say my dog has self-awareness, e.g. he knows his name. >>> But I'm not so sure he is self-conscious. The koi in my pond are aware, but >>> I doubt they are self-aware. >>> >> >> So this is all that Brent means by degrees of consciousness, >> >> >> No, there might also be other differences, although Bruno would no doubt >> disagree. Consider my example of the autonomous Mars Rover, suppose that >> instead of summarizing things into a narrative memory and then >> reconstructing remembered events, as people seem to, it simply recorded >> everything and played back segments when it remembered. ISTM this might >> make a difference in kind. Or suppose there were many Mars Rover at >> different locations and were controlled by the same program. They would >> have different kind of sense of location. >> >> >> after all the waving it in everyone's faces as though it had huge >> explanatory power, it's now been reduced to whether or not an organism >> knows certain things about itself. This looks to me like a lot of >> backpedalling on what started out as a rather grandiose concept, >> >> >> Why would different kinds of consciousness be a grandiose concept? >> >> >> but which has now ended up as something fairly trivial. So koi carp >> don't have a concept of self (who would have thought it? What fools you've >> been in the all-or-nothing camp not to realise that!) >> >> But it now appears that Brent just stepped out of the "consciousness >> continuum" camp (from thermostats, according to Dan Dennet, to us) and into >> the "either-conscious-or-not" camp. Is someone going to welcome him? >> >> >> Bruno thinks there's a good chance the algae in my pond is conscious, so >> he probably agrees that my thermostat might be too. >> >> Brent >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Everything List" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected]. >> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
