On 22 Sep 2014, at 06:46, LizR wrote:
Surely Bruno doesn't think anything capable of (or having the
potential for) computation is conscious?
I hope my answer to Brent has clarified this.
It is clearer when said in the theory. We have the numbers 0, 1, 2,
3, ... Some are universal, and most are not.
They are universal, it means that they have some non trivial coding
(in most base). The universal numbers, I tend to think nowadays, are
conscious. But that consciousness too is, from its 1p view,
indeterminate on complex FPI domains, very large, and it takes some
(logical) time for such consciousness to be aware of the
differentiations.
The universal (or sub-universal, technically) might be the initial
consciousness state which differentiates on most cogent personal
histories.
What is counterintuitive is that this state of consciousness is so
much amnesic that it is literally out of time.
Here, contrary to Brouwer theory of consciousness, which Brouwer
relate to time, it seems the brain can delude you up to make you
identifying with something out of time. It is pure madness? Is it
inconsistent? Well, it helps to get how He lost Himself in His, or Her
Mother Creation. Why soul falls? Why consciousness differentiates? In
a sense it is "just" universal machines reflecting their
incompleteness and building layers and layers of universal domains. A
physical universe is a sort of tool by which universal numbers explore
the arithmetical reality. There are just tuns of unknown awaiting us
in all directions. Somehow "we" build the measure, through dialog with
universal layers, but we is more general than humans.
The 1p of the machine (S4Grz) is close to Brouwer, but it is an open
problem if that can be used to make that consciousness out of time a
genuine 1p logical contradiction.
That assumption would provide the comp explanation to illumination in
some rough way, by PA getting amnesic up to forget the induction
axioms. PA would be enlightened when he remember what is feels like
being RA.
Again, I am close to rambling perhaps. I don't use this in my
publication, to be sure.
That includes my PC....which I must admit has been reluctant to open
the DVD drive bay doors recently...
Concrete machines get that human ability to fail you, certainly. A
machine a bit complex without a bug simply does not exist.
Even in Platonia, those are rare, and they are only very numerous in
the relatively rare histories.
not to mention that someone with a pencil, paper and a lot of time
could by this definition create a conscious being.
He will not create it, like you don't need to count up to some number
for that number to exist. That someone will only enable a person
(already distributed in the whole sigma_1 arithmetic) to chat with
you, if you are patient enough.
I thought you agree that if we discuss with Einstein through
manipulation of a book describing Einstein brain, and the
interconnection (cf Hofstadter), we do discuss genuinely to Einstein.
I mean assuming comp, of course. OK?
Bruno
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