On 02 Oct 2014, at 20:41, meekerdb wrote:
On 10/2/2014 8:47 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:
Religion and spirituality are not barbaric, like medication are not
dangerous.
But the distinction between spirituality and religion is that
spirituality is personal, while it is part of the definition of
religion that it "binds together".
I agree.
One "belongs to" a religion.
Only because we have mix it with politics. It was natural at the
start, and the first big civilisation were based on religion, if only
as a mean for identity, and providing some sense to life.
The usual idea is that our ancestors were good, and if things are mess
up, it is because we have forgotten the lesson, and so this can create
a struggle between different traditions.
Be it a lodge, a sect, an "official" religion, or a counter-religion,
you belong to it when your parents belong to it, most usually. You
belong to your histories.
Now if you look at them, "religion" is NOT the factor of violence.
Violence is a human factor, and usually, like the insults, come from
people having some identity problem, and they can be dangerous, as
usually they develop hate, and disrespect for the discussions.
A religion is defined by a set of dogma.
No. That is a pseudo-religion.
The dogma can be God, or the Universe, or even Comp (although comp
explains in detail that the comp dogma is inconsistent if comp is
true, but some people can miss the proofs and makes it into a dogma),
or even the natural numbers.
So let us do science instead, keeping our private feeling for us, and
working with the interrogation point, always. This, at the meta-level
identifies the beliefs with the theories, which are the things which
we can revised.
Why not adopt that attitude in all fields.
Fundamentalism and violence in religion (and in health) comes from the
fact that apparently we are not mature enough to let theology (or just
to listen to the people) coming back to reason in academy (the worst
system except for the others).
Religion is when spiritual people exchange their experience. It leads
to binding and bonding, but the more serious we are in that affair,
the more we can bind with different people, or animals or plants or
even relative numbers.
By preventing reason in theology, we favor the fundamentalists, the
fairy tales, the superstitions, which are all things which can be used
to propagate hate and the unjust irreligious power.
Christians have been radical too, but today are less radical that some
atheists (in my experience), and the problem is not which religion if
true, or is the problem, because the problem is only the idea that we
tolerate total lack of rigor in what is (for my understanding, close
to greeks and indians) the theory of everything. That includes or is
equal to theology, even if it is only to disprove the existence of
this or that sort of gods when assuming this or that hypotheses about
how connecting our measurement results.
If comp is true, which I don't know, then you can define God by what
remains when you are willing to abandon, even only for awhile, when
you stop believing in the God "Nature", or "Matter", etc.
A lot of evidence for some God (like the god Matter), is not a proof
of its existence, still less so in front of complex open problems.
To be able to do research in theology requires the ability to doubt
your religion.
Certainty is madness. If you are OK with spirituality, you should be
OK with religion, and angry only against the religion when used as
authoritative power to control other people.
Bruno
Brent
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