On Tue, Oct 14, 2014 at 12:49 PM, Bruno Marchal <[email protected]> wrote:
> > On 14 Oct 2014, at 12:32, Telmo Menezes wrote: > > > > On Tue, Oct 14, 2014 at 5:44 AM, Stathis Papaioannou <[email protected]> > wrote: > >> On 14 October 2014 13:14, Pierz <[email protected]> wrote: >> > Oh that is stupid beyond belief. "The argument here is that there is no >> subjective impression." WTF? Maybe this guy is the best argument we have >> for philosophical zombies. I suppose he means *objectively* there is no >> subjective impression, but try to parse the meaning of that assertion! >> >> Yes, the "consciousness does not exist" claim is on the face of it so >> obviously absurd that I think its proponents must mean something else >> by it, such as that consciousness is epiphenomenal. >> > > It's possibly the most absurd claim one can make, because it's precisely > the only thing one can know for sure (assuming non-solipsism). > > > Well, eve more so so with solipsism, note. > In the first person, but I meant that solipsism would excuse the philosophical zombies making such claims. > > > > I think this is an attempt at dogma, and of the worst kind. Once we accept > such an idea, we necessarily lose all confidence in our own cognitive > abilities. Nothing is possible anymore, because the most fundamental aspect > of reality is denied. Reason is completely thrown out of the window. There > is no ground to stand on. As others pointed out, if it's an illusion, who's > being deceived? If this question is an abuse of language, then we might as > well throw language out of the window too, because it's completely useless. > > > They eliminate consciousness because they grasp that it is the only way to > keep the aristotelian belief in a creation intact. > This is what I assume too. Telmo. > > They don't want to backtrack to Plato. > > It is not uncommon for "believer" to accept a contradiction to save their > faith, which appears to be of the type *blind*. > > It is wishful thinking. Which is doubly absurd from people eliminating > consciousness. > > Bruno > > > Telmo. > > >> >> >> -- >> Stathis Papaioannou >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Everything List" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected]. >> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > > http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/ > > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
