On 04 Nov 2014, at 19:22, Terren Suydam wrote:
On Tue, Nov 4, 2014 at 12:53 PM, Bruno Marchal <[email protected]>
wrote:
I watched it over a few times seeing this simple, yet still fairly
numerous 80,000 node + (multiple factors more synaptic connections)
network in dynamic action…. How it lights up then relaxes back into
lower activity; how activity in one region of the fish brain seems
to trigger or be associated with other areas that light up with
neural activity in a seemingly synchronized manner.
Yes. But not too much, or the fish get epileptic problems.
Hi Bruno,
Not to hijack the discussion... but I suspect that the extreme
polarity we see in American politics (and possibly elsewhere) is a
symptom of a sort of epileptic seizure of the "global brain", thanks
to all the new connections mediated by the internet.
Hi Terren,
Normally, the more there are connections, the less will be the
probability of a seizure, thanks to that asynchronization, and
actually chaotic behavior of the nets. But if for some reason, large
parts of the population begin to use the net in some synchronous way
(perhaps by getting too much influenced by powerful adds), the net
could undergo the equivalent of the seizure. I allude to the works
which have shown that both the cerebral seizure of epilepsy, and the
cardio-vascular attacks seems to involve a transition between a
chaotic regime (normal and usual) to a non chaotic repetitive and
synchronous regime.
Social seizure might be more like wars, which might be what follows
from the polarity. I agree with you but the big difference here is in
the synchronous (epilepsy, military behavior, "current computer, also
(!)) versus asynchronous (animal/plant colonies, the net, brains,
people in peace time) than with the number of the connections. The
more connections, the best. that's also how cannabis helps for
epilepsy, by augmenting the probability of transmission between
neurons, at the synapse level, (it acts like oil on the Babbage's
machine's wheels), and diminishes the probability of the chaotic/non-
chaotic transition. In "nature", chaos is a a symptom of health. The
Riemann hypothesis in numbers theory can be seen them as looking if
the prime number distribution is chaotic enough to prevent
arithmetical epilepsy and too much madness from the numbers behavior.
Eventually, similar questions should occur with the measure on the
computations.
It seems to me that if QM is 100% correct, the bottom is "mad", or
"epileptic" at the start, and that there could be no quantum chaos,
due to linearity of both tensor product and evolution. How could the
universal unitary rotation be chaotic? of course, here too, things get
quickly highly non linear in the partial trace, or the internal
relatives view, so much that people appears and believe in taxes and
death. Like in arithmetic, things are in the views from inside. With
computationalism we have to explain that from the internal states
accessible by the machines/numbers.
QM really looks like the solution of the body part of the mind body
problem, but computationalism forces us to prove that it should be the
only solution possible. By QM I mean the basic postulate of quantum
mechanics (without collapse).
Then the mind is explained by the fact that most intensional variants
splits into the communicable and the non communicable.
All universal machine looking inward get frustrated by developing more
knowledge than communicable knowledge. That's why, I think, we cannot
avoid poetry, music, arts, to attempt to make people relive things
close to what they live but cannot communicate.
Bruno
Terren
Fascinating. It looks like one of Telmo's graph, with an observable
dynamics.
Those transparent animals reminds me of the planar boolean graph of
the MGA ...
It makes me wonder if there are certain meta behaviors that large
highly networked and parallelized systems share in common.
Yes.
Most love bread and wine, and most hates taxes and death.
Wonder if there are certain equations that could express these, if
they do exist and again if such underlying common behavior exists
if a knowledge of them can help designers create better systems.
We can study machines with simple (but rich, löbian) beliefs, and
then by imposing simply some self-referentially correct constraints,
we can study the logic of their beliefs and variants in a way which
does not depend of the implementation. So if neural highly parallel
system are supposed to be "correct" or "meaningfull" in the
appropriateness of their response with respect to some highly
probable local "reality", then they will obey to the modal logical
equations related to the logic of self-reference. Now, some of those
modal relations can still be based on the mathematics of the 3p high
level cellular automata, or other parallel implementatioons, and
diverse representation theorem should not be excluded.
For example, how do large wide area networks link up, i.e. what is
the topology of their vertices? How do local area connections and
sub networks interact with and become affected by other dynamic
network activity that has a wide area scope and reach…. And the
role that long distance vertices have to play in linking the large
number of local groups into a cohesively functioning whole.
It might be similar to the ways news circulate on facebook or the
net. It might also be interesting to have map à la Telmo, managing
the dynamics of the "news and gossips" on the social net.
The dynamic functioning of highly parallelized, non-centrally
directed (or timed either) wide area networks, characterized by
having a plethora of regions of specialization, is something I find
of particular interest.
The ultimate reality is 0 dimensional, I think, assuming
computationalism and occam, but of course the fun is not in the
ultimate reality. It comes from inside where parallelism and dialog/
exchange might play a crucial role. Now, computationalism as a TOE
(arithmetic, computer science) has not yet a physical tensor
product, so hard to see if the number dreams cohere enough to have
such stable relationships.
A brain is when amoeba colonies got the cables, but in arithmetic,
we are not yet so advanced.
Bruno
-Chris
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]
] On Behalf Of Stephen Paul King
Sent: Monday, September 08, 2014 3:23 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Fish can communicate and UNDERSTAND each other!
http://phenomena.nationalgeographic.com/2014/09/08/when-your-preys-in-a-hole-and-you-dont-have-a-pole-use-a-moray/
I told you that most animals are less stupid than we might think :)
Stupidity grows with competence. With a big brain and agile hands,
you *can* blow up the planet.
Intelligence if of type <>t. You have <>t -> <> ~<>t. Consistency
entails the consistency of inconsistency.It is the basic roots of
all our human and living-being problems. I think.
I think that we can teach a planaria to move in a virtual
environment, and this could be handy to study simple natural neural
net. And copy them. Even for planaria (thousand of neurons, only 19
optical neuron entries) we might copy them a long time before
having a mathematical specification of the global functioning. The
extreme regeneration power of the planaria is also helpful in the
study of brain development.
http://www.scholarpedia.org/article/Planaria_nervous_system
or
http://rstb.royalsocietypublishing.org/content/363/1500/2071.full
n neuron machines can only support mathematical specification for m
neuron machines when m is much less than n.
Bruno
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[email protected]
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