2014-12-30 14:15 GMT+01:00 Bruno Marchal <[email protected]>: > > On 29 Dec 2014, at 19:27, Alberto G. Corona wrote: > > The Soviet union can be formally considered a "democracy". > > > > > I disagree. Democracy is when there are election, with secret vote, every > four or five years. It allows a formal opposition with some representation > is some parliament or equivalent. >
The soviet union had elections and a other parties. It had a parliament . At least in most of the comunist parties there were a "formal" opposition. The constitution of the URSS was ok according to liberal standards. All that you mentioned were meet as well as it is met by almost every modern regime > > > > > http://books.google.es/books?id=kNfBCKFB8WMC&printsec=frontcover&hl=es#v=onepage&q=soviet&f=false > > > By looking for a true universal classification for political regimes, It > is necessary to raise the level of analysis to metaphysics and theology, > since definitions need to be more and more abstract and precise at the same > time. There is no way to use the external (formal) neither the internal > (self reported) data. > > Basically the only possible forms of governments are the ones defined by > the greek phylosophers. > > > Actually I disagree on this, despite my appreciation of the greeks > philosophers. Plato, and even Plotinus, tried to implement cities governed > by "sage", but this does not work. Cities are better governed by > opportunist egoists, hoping they are clever enough to take into account the > suggestion of the people (if only to be reelected later). > > > > > There is no others possible. The names used in each age vary depending on > the ideologies that support the state, but that does not change the > underlying nature. And the ideology that support the legitimacy of the > regime is a form or religion. That is in what is based the branch of > political theory called political theology, the deepest branch. > > > > In machine's theology, invoking religion in politics is already a > blasphem. > > Theology cannot be political, no more than physics or biology. Politicians > can take into acoount their beliefs and faith, but not in a public way. > Democracy separates religion and state. > > > > > > Marxism is close to Islam. > > > I do agree with this, with Islamism instead of Islam. I am astonished how > much the leftists defend the fanatical Islamists and even the antisemites > and the antichristians, those days. > > > > And The soviet Union close to an oriental empire with the King-Priest that > has the unique power to interpret the true meaning of history. > > > Yes. But that shows how much it is not democratic. Russia has made > progress though. More than we realize in West Europa. But they have still > big progress to do. In the West, we have regressed a lot, and the more I > study how and why, the more I link this to prohibition. > > Exercise: > 5 years of prohibition of alcohol has given Al Capone. > What has given 75 years of prohibition of cannabis? > > Bruno > > > > 2014-12-28 11:57 GMT+01:00 Bruno Marchal <[email protected]>: > >> >> On 27 Dec 2014, at 23:40, Kim Jones wrote: >> >> >>> >>> On 27 Dec 2014, at 11:44 pm, Bruno Marchal <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>> On 27 Dec 2014, at 03:11, Kim Jones wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Democracy is a concept. It can be implemented in various ways. I like >>>>> Liz's conceptualisation of it as communist-style sharing of astcronomical >>>>> wealth and resources among the elites with cockroaches and urine for >>>>> breakfast for the rest of us (that's what prisoners in North Korea get >>>>> given for breakfast according to QC Geoffrey Robertson.) No one who gets >>>>> jugged hare and Beluga caviar for lunch around Pyongyang feels like they >>>>> exist in anything other than a perfect democracy. >>>>> >>>> >>>> Bruno: I doubt this. I am sure that all dictator knows pretty well that >>>> they are not in a democracy. They fight democracy by all means. >>>> >>> >>> So why do they call this place "The DEMOCRATIC People's Republic of >>> Korea (DPRK) ?? Is this some kind of joke or insincere label? >>> >> >> Typical insincere label of a non-democracy. By democracy I think it is >> usually meant that people can vote, regularly, with a representation of >> opposition party, and some level of education (without which voting does >> not really work). >> The secret of the vote is imperative. Voting with hands does not count >> (for obvious reason). >> >> >> >>> Oh, that's right - they have simply misunderstood the true nature of >>> democracy, because they don't subscribe to this list, silly me. >>> >> >> ? >> We might have a problem of definition. I think it is just the definition >> of the term. Democracy is just when we have the right to vote. >> >> >> >> >>> They have defined "democracy" the way they choose; just as does every >>> country who finds this a useful concept. As I said: democracy is a concept >>> and concepts have many many ways of being implemented or delivered. >>> >> >> I am not sure. Democracy is mainly the right of voting. The east european >> countries could not, before the Berlin wall felt, and are democracies >> after. Tunisia, Egypt, even Russia are doing step toward a representative >> democracy, which obviously is hard to implement due to the conflicts of >> interest. >> >> >> >> Clearly, the trick they employ in the DPRK is to define "the people" >>> differently to other countries. That something like two-thirds of the >>> "population" of the DPRK don't even officially exist (ie no birth record >>> kept) appears to be the magic trick. >>> >> >> The DPRK is not a democracy at all. Nobody would believe it is a >> democracy, not even the leader Kim, except for some tyrannic purpose. >> >> >>> The kernel concept of democracy is government by the majority. >>> >> >> Not always. This is complex according to the number of party. With >> multi-partism, sometimes we are governed by a tiny party which can >> influence between two bigger parties which are close to 50%. That is the >> case in my country now: we are governed by a party which is not >> representative of the majority. In Israel also, very often, little minority >> parties get a lot of power. This is the main reason why I favor bi-partism, >> although this has some problem too. If the politics go too much on the >> right, you can vote on the left, and vice-versa. This works, unless the >> parties are manipulated by non transparent powers, like in America today, >> at least for for some political questions. This is a failure of a sick and >> old democracy. We can think about how to correct that, but democracies, >> like living being, are fragile by nature. They can die, like in Germany in >> the thirties. >> >> >> So, all you have to do to have a workable majority is to erase a >>> sizeable part of the population. >>> >>> Voilà. Government for and by the majority. >>> >> >> >> If the majority is erased or impeach to vote, the democracy is faked. You >> cannot criticize the heart by pointing on people having heart disease. >> >> Bruno >> >> >> >> >>> K >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "Everything List" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to [email protected]. >>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>> >> >> http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/ >> >> >> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Everything List" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected]. >> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> > > > > -- > Alberto. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > > http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/ > > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- Alberto. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. 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