On 10 Jan 2015, at 22:47, John Clark wrote:
On Sat, Jan 10, 2015 PGC <[email protected]> wrote:
>>> Bruno -- he is very respectful of other people's opinions and
always argues the ideas without resorting to name calling.
>> Just yesterday Bruno called me a bigot, and it wasn't the first
time.
> Even if he did, you called yourself a bigot yesterday more clearly
I did? Please explain, I'm all ears.
> you believe in your right to give "tongue lashings" or whatever
to people holding different opinions.
That is true, I believe I have the right to give tongue lashings
because, although I may be mistaken, I believe I have freedom of
speech.
> Sure, we can disagree more or less vehemently.
Yes.
> But I don't feel this constant need to keep repeating my message
and shove it into the list over and over, nor do I believe that
punishment or constant shaming of others' beliefs will convert them.
That seems to border on delusion because you're proud of your
crusade, your achievements as a twelve year old, your unique ability
to hijack acronyms
Wow that's quite a tongue lashing! I must conclude that you believe
you have the right to give me a tongue lashing if I hold different
opinions than you, but I do not have the right to give you a tongue
lashing if you hold different opinions than me. You have the right
of free speech but I do not.
>openly displaying blanket prejudice to whole religious groups,
different theologies as well as theology as concept.
I plead guilty to being prejudice against stupidity ignorance and
bad ideas, and there are few ideas stupider or more ignorant than
religion in general or Islam in particular. And yes I display my
contempt openly but in the future I promise to give religion all the
respect it deserves.
By the way, I wonder if you or anybody else on the list can explain
something to me that I have never understood; why is it that in all
of human activity religion is the one and only one that is supposed
to be absolutely positively 100% immune from criticism, and anyone
who breaks this social convention is a terrible person almost by
definition?
Do you realize that my illustration, that we can come back to theology
with a scientific attitude, (and even take the work already done by
the greek and Indians, (and jewish and muslims later, btw), and pursue
it with the modern tools (Church-Turing thesis, theoretical computer
science, modal logics, mathematical logic, physics, etc.) is the best,
constructive way, to criticize all *institutionalized* religion?
Are you aware that by criticizing such approach, you maintain the
field in the hands of those who have the dogma?
The answer to your question is plausibly because people like you
refuse the criticizing of religion, indeed, they seem to remain
inflexible about changing, or generalizing, its most basic notion: God.
The debate God/ Non-God is utterly ridiculous, and it hides the whole
of what the greek theology was about: that is the question: "is the
physical universe reality, or is the physical universe only an aspect,
or a shadow, or an effect, or a border, of ... something else
(popularly called God)"?
By negating theology, you impose the theology according to which the
physical universe *is* the fundamental thing explaining (in principle)
all the others.
But that is what I doubt, and show non defensible if we assume
computationalism in the cognitive science.
Science has not decided between Plato's type of reality, or
Aristotle's one, and with Computationalism, Plato just send a ball in
the goal, ... and no one pretend the match is finished.
I got the feeling that most of the time, you talk like if you knew the
answer, or like if you were not interested in that field.
We can't criticize religions because the churches, with the help of
the main stream atheist (of your type), does not want us to come back
to reasoning at that level, yet.
Bruno
John K Clark
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