Question, Bruno,
Is it theoretically, plausible, to get a verified/testable reaction from this Platonic database in the sky? Can you do it with mathematics, physics?? Perhaps the traditional practice of prayer is the least efficacious means of contact? Mitch The debate God/ Non-God is utterly ridiculous, and it hides the whole of what the greek theology was about: that is the question: "is the physical universe reality, or is the physical universe only an aspect, or a shadow, or an effect, or a border, of ... something else (popularly called God)"? By negating theology, you impose the theology according to which the physical universe *is* the fundamental thing explaining (in principle) all the others. But that is what I doubt, and show non defensible if we assume computationalism in the cognitive science. Science has not decided between Plato's type of reality, or Aristotle's one, and with Computationalism, Plato just send a ball in the goal, ... and no one pretend the match is finished. I got the feeling that most of the time, you talk like if you knew the answer, or like if you were not interested in that field. We can't criticize religions because the churches, with the help of the main stream atheist (of your type), does not want us to come back to reasoning at that level, yet. Bruno -----Original Message----- From: Bruno Marchal <marc...@ulb.ac.be> To: everything-list <everything-list@googlegroups.com> Sent: Sun, Jan 11, 2015 12:41 pm Subject: Re: Why is there something rather than nothing? From quantum theory to dialectics? On 10 Jan 2015, at 22:47, John Clark wrote: On Sat, Jan 10, 2015 PGC <multiplecit...@gmail.com> wrote: >>> Bruno -- he is very respectful of other people's opinions and always >>> argues the ideas without resorting to name calling. >> Just yesterday Bruno called me a bigot, and it wasn't the first time. > Even if he did, you called yourself a bigot yesterday more clearly I did? Please explain, I'm all ears. > you believe in your right to give "tongue lashings" or whatever to people > holding different opinions. That is true, I believe I have the right to give tongue lashings because, although I may be mistaken, I believe I have freedom of speech. > Sure, we can disagree more or less vehemently. Yes. > But I don't feel this constant need to keep repeating my message and shove it > into the list over and over, nor do I believe that punishment or constant > shaming of others' beliefs will convert them. That seems to border on > delusion because you're proud of your crusade, your achievements as a twelve > year old, your unique ability to hijack acronyms Wow that's quite a tongue lashing! I must conclude that you believe you have the right to give me a tongue lashing if I hold different opinions than you, but I do not have the right to give you a tongue lashing if you hold different opinions than me. You have the right of free speech but I do not. >openly displaying blanket prejudice to whole religious groups, different >theologies as well as theology as concept. I plead guilty to being prejudice against stupidity ignorance and bad ideas, and there are few ideas stupider or more ignorant than religion in general or Islam in particular. And yes I display my contempt openly but in the future I promise to give religion all the respect it deserves. By the way, I wonder if you or anybody else on the list can explain something to me that I have never understood; why is it that in all of human activity religion is the one and only one that is supposed to be absolutely positively 100% immune from criticism, and anyone who breaks this social convention is a terrible person almost by definition? Do you realize that my illustration, that we can come back to theology with a scientific attitude, (and even take the work already done by the greek and Indians, (and jewish and muslims later, btw), and pursue it with the modern tools (Church-Turing thesis, theoretical computer science, modal logics, mathematical logic, physics, etc.) is the best, constructive way, to criticize all *institutionalized* religion? Are you aware that by criticizing such approach, you maintain the field in the hands of those who have the dogma? The answer to your question is plausibly because people like you refuse the criticizing of religion, indeed, they seem to remain inflexible about changing, or generalizing, its most basic notion: God. The debate God/ Non-God is utterly ridiculous, and it hides the whole of what the greek theology was about: that is the question: "is the physical universe reality, or is the physical universe only an aspect, or a shadow, or an effect, or a border, of ... something else (popularly called God)"? By negating theology, you impose the theology according to which the physical universe *is* the fundamental thing explaining (in principle) all the others. But that is what I doubt, and show non defensible if we assume computationalism in the cognitive science. Science has not decided between Plato's type of reality, or Aristotle's one, and with Computationalism, Plato just send a ball in the goal, ... and no one pretend the match is finished. I got the feeling that most of the time, you talk like if you knew the answer, or like if you were not interested in that field. We can't criticize religions because the churches, with the help of the main stream atheist (of your type), does not want us to come back to reasoning at that level, yet. Bruno John K Clark -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
