On Thu, Jan 15, 2015 at 6:58 PM, Bruno Marchal <[email protected]> wrote:
> > On 14 Jan 2015, at 11:13, Telmo Menezes wrote: > > > > On Tue, Jan 13, 2015 at 8:36 PM, meekerdb <[email protected]> wrote: > >> On 1/13/2015 7:24 AM, Telmo Menezes wrote: >> >> You're using the term "free" as if it were some mystical property like >> "kosher" or "halal". A free market is simply free from regulation from a >> central authority, that's all. The silk road is free from regulation. >> Anyone can participate, including mafias. If mafias couldn't participate, >> it wouldn't be a free market. >> >> >> The trouble with the idea of a "free market", meaning free of government >> regulation is that a market is a place where things are traded. To trade >> something you need to own it. But without government or its equivalent you >> can't *own *anymore than you can carry at a dead run while firing your >> AK-47. The first function of government is to provide safety for its >> citizens (mostly from each other). The second is to define and defend >> property rights. And governments have done it differently. In England, at >> one time, all land belonged to the crown. Even today a lot of real estate >> in England is not owned by its occupants, it's on a 100y lease from the >> crown. American indians didn't have any concept of personal ownership of >> land. Ownership of "intellectual property" is defined by the government >> and they keep changing it - extending copyright duration at the behest of >> Disney Corp. Stocks and bonds would be just paper without a government to >> enforce ownership. >> > > In the end, if the majority of people decided to misbehave, the government > would be powerless. The reason the majority people do not misbehave is > "software" that was installed in their minds by civilisation. > > > I would have said by nature. Apes does not sent his fellows in gas > chambers. people misbehave in a large part due to civilisation, which > reacts naturally in developing those software at a different level, which > is slow adaptation. > I have a bit of trouble with this sort of civilisation / species duality. Civilisation is a product of the species as-is. Things are probably about to get weird, because biological adaptation is likely to slow to ever matter again, know that our species is mastering genetic engineering. > > > > > Surely you agree that modern governments would not work in ancient > cultures. We actually see this first hand, for example with the Arab spring > revolutions, where democracy quickly devolves back to civil war or > theocracy. > > > We must give time to time and avoid patronization, and stop helping the > theocrats, which should obviously not be considered in relation with any > thing involving "theo", despite what they say. > I agree with avoiding patronization. I think we are quite far away from that still. > > The problem relies today mostly on the lies, and the lack of independence > of the media. And the easy *hattred* response of some humans (which is a > symptom of lack of genuine religion, or abuse of fake religion). > > There is not much difference between hate and stupidity, nor between love > and intelligence (which I distinguish from competence) > I can buy that. Telmo. > > > > The same applies to free markets. They could create a situation where > misbehaving just isn't in your personal self-interest. But this would only > work with a majority of people trusting rationality and educated in a > fashion that would afford them the self-confidence and independence to > prosper in such a world. Democracy started being viable the day a majority > of people started believing in it. There is a very subtle but also very > powerful element to social systems that emerges from what's inside people's > minds. > > > > > Bruno > > > > > > Telmo. > > >> >> Brent >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Everything List" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected]. >> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > > http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/ > > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. 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