From: spudboy100 via Everything List <[email protected]>
Chris,
I was stumbling around for science articles, when I cam across this social
science study from the EU, Germany specifically Chris, which is more nuanced
then my view and less naive (my word) than yours. Its worth the read, and
informs the subject we argue about. Not too long either.
Calling my view naive, may make you feel rhetorically good about yourself, but
I have actually lived in Muslim countries and in Western Europe (for years) and
have a much clearer understanding of the real world as well as the real people
actually living in the real world than you apparently do. Frankly the rise of
all forms of religious fundamentalism including the American fundamentalist
sects concerns me; and you are playing right into their game.-Chris
http://www.science20.com/news_articles/how_prevalent_is_islamic_fundamentalism_in_europe_its_alarming-152350
-----Original Message-----
From: spudboy100 via Everything List <[email protected]>
To: everything-list <[email protected]>
Sent: Fri, Jan 16, 2015 3:15 pm
Subject: Re: Democracy
Your mistake is comparing hand grenades to nerve gas. The Zetas want money and
power, while Boko Haram wants money, power, the lust to kill, and paradise with
babes forever. You do not see the Zetas or the Mafia wiping out a magazine
headquarters, nor do we see meth heads becoming suicide bombers. You are
performing the narrative of the Bamer administration because my pov (based on
observation) is offensive to your weltanschauung. Its not your fault that the
Islamists behave in such a way, and neither is it mine. ISIS is Islam, and says
so in its rule books. Think of the comparison of how Christianity behaved say,
from 325-1945, with wars, slaughters, racism, hatred, and all those other fun
things. This is Islam today and the nice guys are in the minority. ISIS doesn't
need to be the Reich to do heavy damage, because honestly the Germans weren't
that illogical, irrational yes, illogical no. Breivik in Norway was a neonazi
that saw his fellow Norwegians as traitors to the fatherland. Breivik wasn't
seeking paradise, in the same sense that Pol Pot in Cambodia wasn't seeking
paradise. Janah or Paradise, is what literally gets Muslims up in the morning,
factually and allegorically.
-----Original Message-----
From: 'Chris de Morsella' via Everything List <[email protected]>
To: everything-list <[email protected]>
Sent: Fri, Jan 16, 2015 1:11 pm
Subject: RE: Democracy
From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Friday, January 16, 2015 8:19 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Democracy I don't know if I'm a likable fellow, and I'd say
probably not, but thanks. The war and clash of civilizations thing comes up in
the absence of some better alternative. Being overly polite with the Islamists
leads to Boko Haram and Paris, I truly believe, because they view gentleness
as weakness. Who is “they”? Muslim culture in general, or specific criminal
gangs of thugs using Islam as a justification and cover for their crimes?The
killings are worldwide, in places, on a far smaller scale as in Thailand and
the Philippines and India. Gang killings occur in every country. Organized
criminal thugs are operating in many places around the world, not just in
Muslim countries. Why do you constrain yourself to fight only organized
criminal organizations that operate under cover of Islam, using it as a fig
leaf to cover their murderous actions?Do you think the Zetas and other Mexican
drug cartels (or any of the other drug cartels for that matter are not as
murderous? I used to live and drive all over the region of Mexico and South
Texas where the Zetas; that whole region has been terrified by these murderous
criminal thugs who have beheaded people before ISIS got into that game (ex.
2013 beheaded four woman allegedly tied to a rival gang). They have done many
mass killings; more than 60,000 people have died in Mexican drug wars. The
reason, in large part, is the Islamists want to achieve immediate entrance to
Janah, or Paradise, where they get endless access to women, and good times
forever, for sacrificing now. Blablabla… yeah so they tell you. Criminal thugs
are not motivated by such stupid fairy tales, these are hardcore criminal
psychopaths who are using Islam as window dressing. ISIS is not the Third
Reich; to make that comparison is fucking laughable. ISIS is an organized
murderous criminal gang. It should be dealt with in that manner and portrayed
in this light. ISIS is not Islam, in the same way as that asshole who mass
murdered all those teenagers in a summer youth camp in Norway is not
Christian.-Chris This is one reason. In a way, this is akin to letting the 3rd
Reich or Japanese imperialists gain power and momentum in a war, which most
nations didn't want-then war becomes the only solution, because things then
become existential. This seems to be happening once more with the
Islamists-which appear to be gaining momentum today.
Points to be remembered on this forum. No I don't have the proper answer, nor
do I have influence to effect events, for good or ill. It's just my attempt at
problem solving, and sometimes being bloody-minded is something that needs to
be thought through, before choosing a better option. That is if we have
options? -----Original Message-----
From: 'Chris de Morsella' via Everything List <[email protected]>
To: everything-list <[email protected]>
Sent: Fri, Jan 16, 2015 2:06 am
Subject: RE: Democracy From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Thursday, January 15, 2015 12:48 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Democracy Brent says true, in that terrorism is a method, not an
end in itself. I wonder if people would agree to the terms, as a war against
Islamist extremists, or radical Jihadis or? I think naming the enemies of
freedom and peace in the middle east in nigeria with boko haram, and today in
belgium (Hi Bruno) would be more acceptable, in that its limited targets, for a
limited duration. Also, the mean of 'war' need not be violent, because you
can't beat an idea with war alone. You’re a far more likable fellow, when you
don’t do the gung ho go to war talk. P.S. What Boko Harem did in the towns of
Baga and Doron Baga – during the same days as what went on in France FYI – is a
first order war crime. They massacred 2,500 people (Muslim African people) and
destroyed almost 4,000 buildings, literally razing those towns to the ground.
They surely should be hunted down and arrested for their horrible war crimes,
including the enslavement of all those school girls, but it should be a police
action, not a war, and certainly not a crusade!Bastards like that don’t deserve
the honor of being treated as enemies, they are criminal murderous thugs, and
in a just world would be brought to face justice.-Chris -----Original
Message-----
From: meekerdb <[email protected]>
To: everything-list <[email protected]>
Sent: Thu, Jan 15, 2015 1:04 pm
Subject: Re: DemocracyOn 1/14/2015 11:52 PM, 'Chris de Morsella' via Everything
List wrote:
In case no one has noticed, our dear president Obama has changed the rhetoric
used as cover for our Orwellian systems state of permanent war…. The term “War
on Terror” is bad enough, it implies an endless war requiring an Orwellian
intrusive state. But at least it seemed circumscribed to opponents it could
describe as being involved in terror.Obama is now calling it the “War on
extremism”. That term sends Orwellian shivers down my spine; it is so broad and
arbitrary in nature and can be used to describe any and all opponents.
Sigh, everybody's so paranoid about government. Obama started using
"extremism" because the chattering classes kept pointing out that terrorism is
just a tactic and you can't make war on a tactic.
Brent--
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