From: [email protected]
[mailto:[email protected]]
Sent: Friday, January 16, 2015 4:58 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Democracy
Right now, Chris, it ain't the Hindus, or the Buddhists, or the Pastafarians,
or the Jains, nor, the Daoists, nor even the 700 Clubbers, that are causing
hell on earth and massive repression and intimidation. Its the Muslims. Perhaps
in 50 years it will be bloody Star Wars Force fanatics, but today its these
guys.
You so sure of that?
In 2002 Hindu extremists in Gujurat state, with the tacit encouragement and
cover of a rising Hindu nationalist politician (now the Prime Minister of
India, Narendra Modi – leading resurgent Hindu extremism pays off in Indian
politics), murdered over 2,000 Muslims in that state. Lest you say – that was a
decade ago – in 2013 in Uttar Pradesh state more than 50,000 Muslims were
ethnically cleansed and driven from their homes in attacks on Muslim farmers by
Hindu extremists.
The Hindu occupation of Kashmir has led to very serious human rights abuses
against the Muslim majority in that state as well.
The National Liberation Front of Tripura (NLFT), an ethnic militant/terrorist
group in Northeast India "has warned members of the tribal community that they
may be attacked if they do not accept its Christian agenda"; and have murdered
more than 20 Hindus in Tripura because they resisted forced conversions to
Christianity.
The Maronite Christian militias in Lebanon did the 1982 Sabra and Shatila
massacre, which targeted unarmed Palestinian refugees for rape and murder, was
considered to be genocide by the United Nations General Assembly, as
generalissimo Ariel Sharon – whose forces had invaded southern Lebanon --
observed the entire massacre, which his forces could have easily prevented, but
did not.
Northern Ireland – need I say more – kept murdering each other along Christian
sectarian lines for decades.
The Lord's Resistance Army – a fanatical Christian terrorist group in Uganda
has killed thousands.
In the United States, prior to the al-Qaeda attacks of 9/11, the Oklahoma City
bombing McVeigh orchestrated was the most deadly terrorist attack in U.S.
history: 168 people were killed and more than 600 were injured.
the Army of God, the Christian Identity and Christian Patriot movements have
murdered abortion doctors (Dr. George Tiller, May 31, 2009, Dr. Barnett
Slepian, Oct. 23, 1998, Dr. John Britton, July 29, 1994. ) and terrorized those
whom they deem worthy of death because of their Christian ideology.
Planned Parenthood bombing, Brookline, Massachusetts, 1994
Wisconsin Sikh Temple massacre, Aug. 5, 2012 white supremacist Wade Michael
Page used a semiautomatic weapon to murder six people during an attack on a
Sikh temple in Oak Creek, Wisconsin.
The Centennial Olympic Park bombing, July 27, 1996 (carried out by a Christian
terrorist: Eric Rudolph)
Knoxville Unitarian Universalist Church shooting, July 27, 2008. On July 27,
2008, Christian Right sympathizer Jim David Adkisson walked into the Knoxville
Unitarian Universalist Church in Knoxville, Tennessee during a children’s play
and began shooting people at random. Two were killed, while seven others were
injured but survived.
Baruch Goldstein an American-born Israeli physician, perpetrated the 1994 Cave
of the Patriarchs massacre in the city of Hebron, in which he shot and killed
29 Muslim worshipers inside the Ibrahimi Mosque. At Goldstein's funeral, Rabbi
Yaacov Perrin claimed that even one million Arabs are "not worth a Jewish
fingernail", and his gravesite is a pilgrimage destination for Jewish
extremists (yes they exist too).
Any group of people (including religious groups) can perpetrate terroristic
violence upon the identifiable other.
Your desire to frame this as being Muslim only phenomena, is rooted in your
pathological attachment to the insane notion of a clash of civilizations. As I
have said before, no one is stopping you from heading off on your insane
crusade.
-Chris
-----Original Message-----
From: 'Chris de Morsella' via Everything List <[email protected]>
To: everything-list <[email protected]>
Sent: Fri, Jan 16, 2015 4:32 pm
Subject: Re: Democracy
_____
From: spudboy100 via Everything List <[email protected]>
Chris,
I was stumbling around for science articles, when I cam across this social
science study from the EU, Germany specifically Chris, which is more nuanced
then my view and less naive (my word) than yours. Its worth the read, and
informs the subject we argue about. Not too long either.
Calling my view naive, may make you feel rhetorically good about yourself, but
I have actually lived in Muslim countries and in Western Europe (for years) and
have a much clearer understanding of the real world as well as the real people
actually living in the real world than you apparently do. Frankly the rise of
all forms of religious fundamentalism including the American fundamentalist
sects concerns me; and you are playing right into their game.
-Chris
http://www.science20.com/news_articles/how_prevalent_is_islamic_fundamentalism_in_europe_its_alarming-152350
-----Original Message-----
From: spudboy100 via Everything List <[email protected]>
To: everything-list <[email protected]>
Sent: Fri, Jan 16, 2015 3:15 pm
Subject: Re: Democracy
Your mistake is comparing hand grenades to nerve gas. The Zetas want money and
power, while Boko Haram wants money, power, the lust to kill, and paradise with
babes forever. You do not see the Zetas or the Mafia wiping out a magazine
headquarters, nor do we see meth heads becoming suicide bombers. You are
performing the narrative of the Bamer administration because my pov (based on
observation) is offensive to your weltanschauung. Its not your fault that the
Islamists behave in such a way, and neither is it mine. ISIS is Islam, and says
so in its rule books. Think of the comparison of how Christianity behaved say,
from 325-1945, with wars, slaughters, racism, hatred, and all those other fun
things. This is Islam today and the nice guys are in the minority. ISIS doesn't
need to be the Reich to do heavy damage, because honestly the Germans weren't
that illogical, irrational yes, illogical no. Breivik in Norway was a neonazi
that saw his fellow Norwegians as traitors to the fatherland. Breivik wasn't
seeking paradise, in the same sense that Pol Pot in Cambodia wasn't seeking
paradise. Janah or Paradise, is what literally gets Muslims up in the morning,
factually and allegorically.
-----Original Message-----
From: 'Chris de Morsella' via Everything List <[email protected]>
To: everything-list <[email protected]>
Sent: Fri, Jan 16, 2015 1:11 pm
Subject: RE: Democracy
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]?> ]
Sent: Friday, January 16, 2015 8:19 AM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Democracy
I don't know if I'm a likable fellow, and I'd say probably not, but thanks. The
war and clash of civilizations thing comes up in the absence of some better
alternative. Being overly polite with the Islamists leads to Boko Haram and
Paris, I truly believe, because they view gentleness as weakness.
Who is “they”? Muslim culture in general, or specific criminal gangs of thugs
using Islam as a justification and cover for their crimes?
The killings are worldwide, in places, on a far smaller scale as in Thailand
and the Philippines and India.
Gang killings occur in every country. Organized criminal thugs are operating in
many places around the world, not just in Muslim countries. Why do you
constrain yourself to fight only organized criminal organizations that operate
under cover of Islam, using it as a fig leaf to cover their murderous actions?
Do you think the Zetas and other Mexican drug cartels (or any of the other drug
cartels for that matter are not as murderous? I used to live and drive all over
the region of Mexico and South Texas where the Zetas; that whole region has
been terrified by these murderous criminal thugs who have beheaded people
before ISIS got into that game (ex. 2013 beheaded four woman allegedly tied to
a rival gang). They have done many mass killings; more than 60,000 people have
died in Mexican drug wars.
The reason, in large part, is the Islamists want to achieve immediate entrance
to Janah, or Paradise, where they get endless access to women, and good times
forever, for sacrificing now.
Blablabla… yeah so they tell you. Criminal thugs are not motivated by such
stupid fairy tales, these are hardcore criminal psychopaths who are using Islam
as window dressing.
ISIS is not the Third Reich; to make that comparison is fucking laughable. ISIS
is an organized murderous criminal gang. It should be dealt with in that manner
and portrayed in this light.
ISIS is not Islam, in the same way as that asshole who mass murdered all those
teenagers in a summer youth camp in Norway is not Christian.
-Chris
This is one reason. In a way, this is akin to letting the 3rd Reich or Japanese
imperialists gain power and momentum in a war, which most nations didn't
want-then war becomes the only solution, because things then become
existential. This seems to be happening once more with the Islamists-which
appear to be gaining momentum today.
Points to be remembered on this forum. No I don't have the proper answer, nor
do I have influence to effect events, for good or ill. It's just my attempt at
problem solving, and sometimes being bloody-minded is something that needs to
be thought through, before choosing a better option. That is if we have
options?
-----Original Message-----
From: 'Chris de Morsella' via Everything List <[email protected]>
To: everything-list <[email protected]>
Sent: Fri, Jan 16, 2015 2:06 am
Subject: RE: Democracy
From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]?> ]
Sent: Thursday, January 15, 2015 12:48 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Democracy
Brent says true, in that terrorism is a method, not an end in itself. I wonder
if people would agree to the terms, as a war against Islamist extremists, or
radical Jihadis or? I think naming the enemies of freedom and peace in the
middle east in nigeria with boko haram, and today in belgium (Hi Bruno) would
be more acceptable, in that its limited targets, for a limited duration. Also,
the mean of 'war' need not be violent, because you can't beat an idea with war
alone.
You’re a far more likable fellow, when you don’t do the gung ho go to war talk.
P.S. What Boko Harem did in the towns of Baga and Doron Baga – during the same
days as what went on in France FYI – is a first order war crime. They massacred
2,500 people (Muslim African people) and destroyed almost 4,000 buildings,
literally razing those towns to the ground. They surely should be hunted down
and arrested for their horrible war crimes, including the enslavement of all
those school girls, but it should be a police action, not a war, and certainly
not a crusade!
Bastards like that don’t deserve the honor of being treated as enemies, they
are criminal murderous thugs, and in a just world would be brought to face
justice.
-Chris
-----Original Message-----
From: meekerdb <[email protected]>
To: everything-list <[email protected]>
Sent: Thu, Jan 15, 2015 1:04 pm
Subject: Re: Democracy
On 1/14/2015 11:52 PM, 'Chris de Morsella' via Everything List wrote:
In case no one has noticed, our dear president Obama has changed the rhetoric
used as cover for our Orwellian systems state of permanent war…. The term “War
on Terror” is bad enough, it implies an endless war requiring an Orwellian
intrusive state. But at least it seemed circumscribed to opponents it could
describe as being involved in terror.
Obama is now calling it the “War on extremism”. That term sends Orwellian
shivers down my spine; it is so broad and arbitrary in nature and can be used
to describe any and all opponents.
Sigh, everybody's so paranoid about government. Obama started using
"extremism" because the chattering classes kept pointing out that terrorism is
just a tactic and you can't make war on a tactic.
Brent
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