On 29 Jan 2015, at 11:12, Samiya Illias wrote:
On Wed, Jan 28, 2015 at 9:13 PM, Bruno Marchal <[email protected]>
wrote:
On 14 Jan 2015, at 11:46, Samiya Illias wrote (to Chris):
Why not define God as the Creator and Sustainer of the Universe and
Everything Else that is or may exist?
Very good, and common, definition. It is in most of my theological
dictionaries. Note that the Universe is itself among the things
which may, or may not, exist.
Glad you agree. Most people are okay with Creator but not okay with
Sustainer...
I think that without God, we get 0 = 1 in a second.
I have more problem with creator. But don't mind. It is very technical.
The raison d'être of everything?
OK.
:)
The unanswerable and unexplainable first reason?
This is saying more than needed, but I agree, and it follows from
the definition above if we assume computationalism.
Hmm..
Do you agree that God has either to submit to Truth, or to be Truth?
Who chooses to remain hidden but Whose presence cannot be denied?
OK. We might be able to explain why "he chooses to remain hidden",
once we agree on some definition and axioms.
My favourite text does contain some clues such as:
1. that God is the 'noor' [spiritual light?, radiation?, ??? http://quran.com/24/35
] of the Heavens and Earth;
2. vision perceives Him not but He perceives all [http://quran.com/6/103
];
3. that when Moses asked to see God, he was told that if the
mountain can bear to see God, then perhaps Moses might be able to
see God [http://quran.com/7/143 ];
OK.
4. it is not for any 'bashr' [mortal?] to communicate with God
except by revelation
But with computationalism, in the case of the sound machine,
revelation are kept silent.
or from behind a veil or through a messenger [http://quran.com/42/51]
Who will decide its authority?
This is dangerous, the people with bad intention (stealing,
controlling others) can use that idea.
5. and that God's command descends through the entire creation, and
He has encompassed everything in His knowledge [http://quran.com/
65/12 ]
Well, a lot. Omniscience is self-contradictory. But take that remark
as "academical", as "omniscience" makes sense for large domain, just
not *everything*.
The question that nobody can begin to answer?!
I can agree, but to be honest, I am not always sure you do agree
yourself with this, due to some attachment you illustrate with
literal interpretation of some human text.
Some attachment? Great attachment!!! I am quite convinced that it
not a human text,
May be it is not a human text. But how can you be convinced on this?
The Quran is a divine poem. Nothing in a poem should be taken literally.
If you take it literally, you do insult all other searchers, because
you tell them, we are the one having had the genuine contact with the
genuine God.
I don't ask you to abandon your faith, but to doubt the literacy of
its rendering.
and the more I study it, the more fascinatingly convincing I find it
to be [http://signsandscience.blogspot.com/ ]
You can confirm most theories by selecting facts. It is not a valid
procedure.
And why nobody can answer? Simply because God is not like anything
else [http://quran.com/112/ ]
If you want approach the truth, you need more training in the art of
doubting.
You need to find a morphism (bridge) between your theory, and theories
by others. Literalism makes that task impossible, and this is a reason
why literal people get violent. They concentrate on the differences
instead of looking to the important things they have in common.
Bruno
Samiya
I agree those text does not give the answer, though, but it looks
like it answers them implicitly, in some way, which can be very
misleading if taken literally. It introduces the argument-per-
authority (non valid) in the discourse. We can see how some non-
believers can exploit that, for special interests.
Bruno
Samiya
Brent
Jason
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
Groups "Everything List" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,
send an email to [email protected].
To post to this group, send email to [email protected]
.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
Groups "Everything List" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,
send an email to [email protected].
To post to this group, send email to [email protected]
.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
Groups "Everything List" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,
send an email to [email protected].
To post to this group, send email to [email protected]
.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
Groups "Everything List" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,
send an email to [email protected].
To post to this group, send email to everything-
[email protected].
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
Groups "Everything List" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,
send an email to [email protected].
To post to this group, send email to [email protected].
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
Groups "Everything List" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,
send an email to [email protected].
To post to this group, send email to [email protected].
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
"Everything List" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email
to [email protected].
To post to this group, send email to [email protected].
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
