On Tue, Jun 23, 2015 Terren Suydam <[email protected]> wrote: > > you're just sidestepping the fact that in the scenario I'm proposing, the > two copies will have to work it out which will sacrifice themselves for the > benefit of the other. >
Work it out? If they're identical so they agree on everything and would have a equal desire (or a equal reluctance) to open that door. I'm just wondering if this is some odd euphemism for physical death. > "We're sorry ma'am, but your son was, err, disrupted instantaneously last > night." "Heavens, is he alright?" Let me propose my own thought experimenter. An exact duplicate of the earth, and its entire ecosystem, is created a billion light years away. The duplicate world would need some sort of feedback mechanism to keep the worlds in synchronization, non linear effects would amplify tiny variations, even quantum fluctuations, into big differences, but this is a thought experiment so who cares. In the first two cases below the results would vary according to personalities, remember there's a lot of illogic even in the best of us. 1) I know all about the duplicate world and you put a 44 magnum gun to my head and tell me that in ten seconds you will blow my brains out. Am I concerned? You bet I am because I know that your double is holding an identical gun to the head of my double and making an identical threat. 2) I find out that for the first time since the Big Bang the worlds will diverge and in 10 seconds you will put a bullet in my head but my double will be spared, am I concerned? Yes, and angry as well, in times of intense stress nobody is very logical. My double is no longer exact because I am going through a traumatic experience and my double is not. I'd be looking at that huge gun and wondering what it will be like when it goes off and if death will really be instantaneous. I'd be wondering if my philosophy was really as sound as I thought it was and I'd also be wondering why I get the bullet and not my double and cursing the unfairness of it all. My (semi) double would be thinking "it's a shame about that other fellow but I'm glad it's not me". 3)I know nothing about the duplicate world, a gun is at both our heads and we both are convinced we're going to die. One gun goes off, making a hell of a mess, but the other gun, for inexplicable reasons misfires. In this case * nobody * died and except for undergoing a terrifying experience I am completely unharmed. The real beauty part is that I don't even have to clean up the mess. > > > Imagine this is a reality show and while they're going through the ordeal, > they are being interviewed for the show. They will have vastly different > experiences, especially as they come to an agreement about who will live > and who will get "disrupted instantaneously". > If they have " vastly different experiences " then they are no longer identical, they are vastly different. > > If a duplication occurs by uploading John Clark into two identical > simulations, that's a different story - there is only one John Clark. But > if the simulations were identical in every way, and deterministic in every > way, then it could be argued that no duplication ever took place. > In that case a brain has been duplicated but a consciousness has not been. >> >> You just said and I agree that there are "two first-person views", and >> both people who have those two different first person views remember being >> the Helsinki man; so those talking about "THE" future first person view of >> the Helsinki Man as if it were singular are talking nonsense. As for >> "ridiculing the terminology" well...., from now on I promise to give it all >> the respect it deserves. >> > > > > Awesome, then I await your take on Step 4. > I have not read step 4 nor do I intend to. If step 3 of a proof, any proof, is crap then the entire "proof" is crap. > > > After all, the *one* subjective experience of Helsinki man prior to being > duplicated becomes the *two* separate subjective experiences > Yes. > > > That gives 1/2 probabilities of Helsinki Man experiencing continuing in > either Moscow or Washington. > But what does "The Helsinki Man" mean? It can't mean the guy currently experiencing Helsinki because after the duplication nobody is in Helsinki anymore, so it must mean the guy who remembers being the Helsinki Man; but there are 2 people who meet that criteria. Therefor to determine the fate of the Helsinki Man two and not just one individual must be interviewed, and from that the only logical conclusion is that the Helsinki Man saw Moscow AND Washington. John K Clark > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
