On 20 Apr 2016, at 00:12, John Clark wrote:
On Tue, Apr 19, 2016 at 12:30 PM, Bruno Marchal <[email protected]>
wrote:
> "is" in which sense?
"sense" in which sense? You must be a fan of Bill Clinton
who notoriously said in answer to a question in a legal deposition:
"It depends on what the meaning of the word 'is' is."
> Some multi or multimulti verses could be everything physical
that there is, but not everything needs to be physical
But physicists deal in the physical that why they're bored to
tears when people start talking about what things would look like
from places that are impossible to exist even in theory.
> exemple: the natural numbers, the complex numbers,
First of all we don't even know for certain that the Real Numbers
exist much less the Complex Numbers, and even it they do they
don't have a location. but a viewpoint does, it's a position of
observation; and if that location is not inside the multiverse
it does not exist.
> but logically, it is conceivable to have structure containing
themselves,
Fine, but it is not logical to have something that is not part of
itself be part of itself; like a place that is not part of the
multiverse you can stand on to look at it from the outside. The
multiverse has no outside.
That is why Nagel called it the point of view of nowhere, and
sometimes I call something slightly similar the 0th person point of
view. What you say does not refute what I said, given that here, the
0th point of view is given by the mathematics of the Everett Universal
Wave. It just means that we look at the wave function of the universe
assuming QM without collapse. And I have not use this, only any
superposition coming from Alice and Bob entangling themselves with a
singlet state (sometehing you have eliminate from the successive
quotes, so we were leading astray from the topic).
Bruno
>> If the works of Galilee, Einstein or Maxwell
were built on unphysical foundations then today nobody would
remember their names, instead they are among the most famous
physicists of all time. In fact Einstein came up with relativity by
trying to imagine what the viewpoint would be of somebody moving at
the speed of light and discovered that viewpoint would produce
logical contradictions, and therefore CAN NOT EXIST.
> No, he put itself at the place of a photon which does move at
the speed of light, and concluded to the laws of relativity and to
the fact that the photon can't have a mass non null. I think.
Einstein figured that if the fundamental laws of physics were
worth anything then they must be true for any frame of reference,
but from the frame of reference of somebody moving at 186,000 miles
a second all electromagnetic waves would have a undulating shape
that changes in space but not in time and light would have zero
velocity. But that would be contrary to Maxwell's equations,
therefore Einstein concluded that the viewpoint of a observer moving
at 186,000 miles a second CAN NOT EXIST. And after that realization
the rest of special relativity fell into place.
> Many works of many physicists are built in part (at least) on
unphysical foundation: mathematics.
I can't think of one. It's true that before Einstein proved them
wrong people though non-Euclidean geometry was unphysical, but a
place to stand outside the multiverse will always be unphysical
because if it was physical it would be inside the multiverse.
John k Clark
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