On 05 May 2016, at 19:43, 'scerir' via Everything List wrote:
Bruno writes:
Alice * (up + down) = Alice * up + Alice * down.
If Alice look, as many times as she want at the up/down state of the
particle,
she will find up (and always up) *and* down and always down.
The reason is that once she find up, Alice becomes Alice-up,
and that state does no more factor out the particle state (unless
memory
erasure).
---------------
The paradox of the "Renninger type measurement" is that it causes some
changes in the state of the system “WITHOUT INTERACTION.”
Renninger discussed a “NEGATIVE RESULT” experiment:
a situation in which the detector DOES NOT DETECT ANYTHING.
But in spite of the fact that nothing happened to the detector,
there is a
change
in the measured system (split, collapse, reduction, or whatever).
He considered a spherical wave of a photon after it extended beyond
the radius at which a scintillation detector was located in part of
the solid
angle.
The state of the detector remained unchanged but, nevertheless, the
wave-
function
of the photon is modified.
See ch. 4.1 here http://mist.npl.washington.edu/npl/int_rep/tiqm/TI_40.html
and also http://mist.npl.washington.edu/npl/int_rep/tiqm/TI_fig_06.html
How is it possible to explain this situation? In MWI terms? In
ManyMinds
terms?
Third person pov? First person pov? I'm asking that because there is a
strange mixture of (physical) reality and (subjective) information
here.
Interesting, but my schedule makes it hard for me to analyse this just
now. Now, if you think you can argue for non-locality from Renninger
type of measurement, don't hesitate to show us. Here the point was
just that the violation of Bell's inequality does not lead to non-
local action, unless measurement leads to single realities.
A long time ago, I convinced my self that Elizur Vaidman type of
measurement without interaction might be problematic with the MWI, but
that was not the case. Is Renninger measurement related to this?
Of course, with computationalism all this are open problem. Would the
physics extracted from computationalism leads to non-locality, I would
decide to be a gardiner ;)
Bruno
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