On 6/11/2016 3:04 PM, John Clark wrote:
On Sat, Jun 11, 2016 at 1:41 PM, Telmo Menezes <[email protected]
<mailto:[email protected]>>wrote:
​> ​
You seem to equate physics with primary matter, and yet I know of no
law of physics that implies primary matter.
​As I've said 6.02*10^23 times it's irrelevant if matter is primary or
not, matter is still necessary to make calculations or perform
intelligent behavior or produce consciousness.
I think Bruno agrees with that - although maybe he still holds that a
conscious being could just be conscious of mathematical axioms and
proofs and theorems. Anyway I've argued with him that even if his
theory of mathematics/computation first is true and conscious thought
and physics are derivative, the derived physics will still be
necessary. That a consciousness with no world to be conscious OF is
incoherent.
And even if matter isn't primary that doesn't necessarily mean
mathematics is.
The question is can one be derived from the other? William S. Cooper,
"The Origin of Reason" makes an argument that mathematics is a way of
brains thinking about things that was found by evolution, just like
mobility, metabolism, reproduction,...and a lot of other functions.
Bruno doesn't like that story though because it means mathematics only
exists as instantiated in brains. He thinks matter and physics, as well
as consciousness, can be derived from computation. He argues that
consciousness is as fundamental as matter and that computation is the
right stuff to make both of them, whereas he thinks he has a proof that
consciousness can't be made from matter (his "movie graph" argument).
Brent
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