On Sat, Jun 11, 2016 at 7:14 PM, John Clark <[email protected]> wrote: > On Fri, Jun 10, 2016 at 6:11 PM, Brent Meeker <[email protected]> wrote: > >>> >> >>> It makes no difference if the physics is simulated or not; a simulated >>> calculation produces real arithmetic not simulated arithmetic and a >>> simulated brain will produce real consciousness not simulated consciousness. >>> Bruno's brain works according to the laws of simulated physics and simulated >>> cyanide with stop that simulated brain from working and thus the >>> consciousness it produces. >> >> >> > >> Exactly - provided you identify "Bruno" as the person we know in this >> branch of the multiverse, > > > But why does cyanide have any effect on any Bruno in any branch of the > multiverse if physics is unrelated to consciousness?
I don't think anyone claimed that physics is unrelated to consciousness. The debate is about how they are related. > >> >> > >> Bruno just notes that it is commonly assumed that consciousness is >> realized by certain computations > > > And I agree with that, but for computations to exist physics is required. Physics is a description of observable reality. It strikes me nonsensical to say that you "need physics" for something to happen. You seem to equate physics with primary matter, and yet I know of no law of physics that implies primary matter. > > >> >> > >> So if all possible computations exist (and they do in the mathematical >> sense) > > > All correct calculations exist, but all incorrect calculations exist too, to > sort one from the other physics is required. In mathematics you assume some > axioms are true and then use them to build something out of them, but with > physics it doesn't matter what your opinion of the conservation of energy > is, if it violates that principle your perpetual motion machine will let you > know mighty damn quick by not working. And even if your mathematical axioms > are true, when you use them to derive something there is no way to > definitive know if you made a mistake in doing so. But if the physical > machine I built doesn't work I know for a fact I made a mistake in my use of > physical principles. No you don't know that for a fact. You could be hallucinating. You are exactly in the same situations that any other machine is, and that Gödel found out about. You don't know if you're consistent. Telmo. > > John K Clark > > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
