On 16 Oct 2016, at 19:32, John Clark wrote:

Evgenii Rudnyi <use...@rudnyi.ru> wrote: > I have listened to Sean Carroll's Big Picture. I read his book too.> His world view is actually similar to the Game of Life, well,the rules are a bit more complicated. Below is the link to theequation that he proposes.Carroll's equation is ASTRONOMICALLY more complicated thanConway's rules for the Game of Life; the beauty of Conway'srules is that although very simple they are Turing complete andthus can lead to arbitrary magnitudes of complexity.

`Yes, like the combinators, or elementary formal arithmetic. Actually,`

`by the incredible work of Putnam, Davis, Robinson, Matiyasevich, just`

`one degree four diophantine polynomial is Turing Universal (so that by`

`assuming Church's thesis, Hilbert's tenth problem is unsolvable).`

And Carroll's equation doesn't explain Dark Matter or initialconditions, such as why Dark Energy has the value it has and isn't10^120 times stronger, nor does it explain the behavior of neutrinosor tell us what the conditions are at the center of a Black Hole.Having said that I do admit that Carroll's equation can predict mostof the things that happen in everyday life, although it would takeone hell of a lot of calculations to do so.

`Well, if we assume computationalism, Carroll's equation does not solve`

`the mind-body problem.`

`The Turing-complete proposition above does, in the case the`

`probability one defined from self-reference gives a structure defining`

`the observable of measure one. As the quantum does that well (Gleason`

`theorem), we need to get enough close to the quantum to lift it on`

`arithmetic.`

`But incompleteness does provide the nuances needed, and they have a`

`quantum-like enough structure already which confirms`

`computationalism. Intuitively, we can already grasp that when we`

`observe ourselves+environment below the computationalist substitution`

`level, we get infinities of "world/computations" interfering`

`statistically.`

> Carroll claims that his equation describes human beings aswell. He takes a compatibilist position in respect to free willThe one problem I have with Carroll's book is that he talks a lotabout "free will" without giving us even a hint at what that term issupposed to mean; tell me what it means and I'll tell you if humanbeings have that property or not, and I'll tell you if aroulette wheel or a Cuckoo clock has that property too.

`You have yourself propose a definition, and I have proposed some`

`variety of notion.`

`Free-will is when someone is self-determined. A kid told me that it is`

`the ability to eat chocolate even before dinner, being quite`

`determined on the actions to be enacted.`

`Despite a Turing machine can solve Carroll-like equation she can't`

`solve any equation determining in advance its future behavior, but`

`then she can, with respect to some goal, ponder and choose among`

`different future actions, and determines its course of action. You`

`need some amount of free-will (that, will + free) to smoke the first`

`cigarette, and you need some free-will to smoke the last one.`

Adding randomness or non-causal-ness, can only lower free-will.

> No, I do not know what life is. I guess, nobody does.You know what life is you just don't have a definition, but youhave something much better, examples. After being given a fewexamples of things that are alive and things that are not it's easyto put most new objects in the correct category, although a fewtimes, such as with viruses, it's a judgement call. Carroll gave usneither a definition of "free will" nor a set of examples of thingsthat have it and things that don't, so I have no idea what the termmeans.

`The animals plants, which might react only instinctively from`

`immediate measurement might have much less free-will than dogs,`

`gorilla and humans. I guess you need more than a cerebral stem + a`

`cerebellum, you need a brain (that is a reasonable limbic system and a`

`"higher cortex").`

`Free-will is a double-edged gift. It makes possible for an entity to`

`hurt another, or even itself.`

`In moral, free-will is needed to get a notion of personal`

`responsibility, and guilt is a symptom that we (the high mammifer,`

`like cats, ..) have it.`

`All judges use the free-will notion to distinguish the 4 following`

`cases of a man killing a woman with his car:`

`1) seemingly because the woman jumped on the road in front of him, and`

`he could not avoid her,`

`2) seemingly because he decided to finish all bottles of wine at the`

`party before leaving it with his car, and then drove like a nut.`

`3) seemingly because he hated her, as she decided to break with him,`

`and in rage use his car to kill her "purposefully".`

`4) seemingly because he is a psychopath and seems to appreciate`

`killing woman in a way or another, for sexual pleasure.`

`Most people can guess what a reasonable judge would decide among`

`"acquitted, jail, hospital and asylum" for those guy.`

`Free-will might be related also to the dilemma of the prisoner, in`

`game theory, and perhaps an ability to diagonalize on our own habits.`

`It might ease adaptation and enrich the relationship (in procedural`

`abilities).`

`Free will is not the ability to chose what we will, it is the ability`

`to choose comma. The word "free" can be kept to make clear that we`

`assume the entity is not stuck in a hole, or in jail, etc.`

Bruno

John K Clark --You received this message because you are subscribed to the GoogleGroups "Everything List" group.To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

http://iridia.ulb.ac.be/~marchal/ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.