If dreaming is a function of biological things, where then, might be the brain of the dreamer. Can we contact the dreamer? Is there a an analog of the dreamers, neurobiology? Numbers may generate reality, or so Tegmark has asserted. Wolfram also gets this, and I ask, imbecile that I am, ok, so what can we do with this? Can we contact the programmer? Hey, like Jürgen Schmidhuber has written of, A Great Programmer. For me, all I can handle is PowerShell...maybe. -----Original Message----- From: Bruno Marchal <[email protected]> To: everything-list <[email protected]> Sent: Thu, Jan 26, 2017 10:26 am Subject: Re: Correction to MWI post
On 25 Jan 2017, at 21:25, spudboy100 via Everything List wrote: Sounds like a Lôbian device is a necessity, in this facet of the MWI? If they don't form naturally, God sets us in motion so we can invent them. If you agree that 2+2=4 and the like, we don't need to invoke (any) God. Referential numbers provably exists, and all those having rich cognitive abilities, like belieeing in the induction axioms, are provably Löbian. God needs only to create the natural numbers, with addition and multiplication. But the numbers themselves can only hope to be correct. Moreover, they imply that we get Everett's and Wheeler's universe to function by supplying more observers. I am guessing the mightier the observer, the more clout they have to change things, split things off, etc. Larry Krauss once joked, that astronomers shouldn't peer back in time, because they might cause the universe to collapse. No worry :) ... because there are no universe, only dreams. But below our substitution level, the dreams seems to cohere enough to allow long, perhaps infinite, sharable "video games", and we extrapolate them into "physical universe" (assuming computationalism if this needs to be repeated). We can't collapse that. It belongs to a realm which is "out of time", "out of space". Bruno -----Original Message----- From: Bruno Marchal <[email protected]> To: everything-list <[email protected]> Sent: Wed, Jan 25, 2017 11:09 am Subject: Re: Correction to MWI post On 25 Jan 2017, at 13:17, spudboy100 via Everything List wrote: Wishful thinking gives a sense of direction, Wishes can do that. Wishful thinking leads to believe in things which do not exist, and eventually to disarrays and difficulties. science tells how long it may take to get there. It can also say if "there" is accessible at all. To be sure, as I explained sometimes, notably in the second part of Sane04, there might be a sort of wishful thinking at the bottom of reality, in the sense that if you convince rationally a Löbian entity that If ever she believes in Santa Klaus, Santa Klaus exist, then she will believe in Santa Klaus. That is actually Löb's theorem, but the comparison with wishful thinking, or with the placebo, is a bit metaphorical. Löb's theorem is still very amazing. The machine rational beliefs are close for the rule []p -> p --------- p Put in another way: []([]p -> p) -> []p is true about the machine. That is Löb's formula (with "[]" put for Gödel's provability predicate of the entity). It happens that not only it is true, but it is provable too by the Löbian entity (machine or divine being). It is the main axiom of the modal logic G (and G*). Bruno -----Original Message----- From: Bruno Marchal <[email protected]> To: everything-list <[email protected]> Sent: Wed, Jan 25, 2017 5:46 am Subject: Re: Correction to MWI post On 25 Jan 2017, at 02:19, spudboy100 via Everything List wrote: Aristotelean or dull and ant-intellectual, perhaps. I am thinking, communication, trade, entertainment, is more enjoyable then platonic idealism, don't you? Yes. I think so. Now science is enjoyable too, but is not done for enjoyment per se. Truth is not always enjoyable, and science is not necessarily wishful thinking. Bruno -----Original Message----- From: Bruno Marchal <[email protected]> To: everything-list <[email protected]> Sent: Mon, Jan 23, 2017 6:08 am Subject: Re: Correction to MWI post On 22 Jan 2017, at 00:06, spudboy100 via Everything List wrote: Unless these universes are somehow, touchable, it's as if, they don't exist. Not at all. Linearitu of QM makes them untouchable, but we have still to accept their physical existence because they do interfere statistically. If not you need a theory like Bohm, with the known difficulties which are insuperable in the relativistic domain, or use the collapse of the wave, which leads to a dualism, a god playing dice, action at distance, fuzzy notion of observers, etc. Then with computationalism, we have the many-dreams anyway, already in arithmetic, which is already assumed by the physicist. Then also, are you sure you can touch more easily one universe? Again, that leads to an absurd (non Turing emulable) role of matter in psychology. I love the topic, but it's kind of never never land. This is perhaps due to Aristotelian prejudice. You seem to believe in (at least one) universe playing a fundamental role .. Ya got wormholes, I'm interested. ... or perhaps you are just not interested in fundamental question. The whole point is that this question (the number of universe) is amenable to empirical refutation. With computationalism, to put it bluntly: there are zero universe, only a reality emerging from the first person indeterminacy of the distributed subject in infinitely may computations, constrained by the theoretical computer science constraints imposed on self-observation. Bruno -----Original Message----- From: Brent Meeker <[email protected]> To: EveryThing <[email protected]> Sent: Sat, Jan 21, 2017 3:39 pm Subject: Fwd: Correction to MWI post Phillip Ball's critique of MWI. Brent -------- Forwarded Message -------- Use this MWI to access the Aeon article. Sorry -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. 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