On 22 Apr 2017, at 06:09, Brent Meeker wrote:
On 4/21/2017 1:15 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:
On 20 Apr 2017, at 22:24, Brent Meeker wrote:
On 4/20/2017 12:05 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:
That looks nice. So now, I ask to you, and to everybody a
question, which is important, and still open although I do have
some opinion/hint.
You are in Helsinki, and you are scanned and annihilate as usual,
and (3p)-duplicate in three exemplars: one is reconstituted in W
and two in Moscow. You are told before, in Helsinki, that in
Moscow, the two exemplaries are in the exact same state and
environment, and that this will last forever (they will never 1p
differentiate).
In what sense are they "two"?
Let us say that one is in a virtual environment imitating Moscow
centrum, put physically at the North of the "real" Moscow, and the
second one, is in the numerically identical virtual environment
imitating Moscow centrum, but put physically at the South of the
"real" Moscow. Again, we suppose that the substitution are done at
the right substitution level, so that the first person experience
are identical (but the processing is duplicated).
So really all the talk about "identical virtual environment" is
irrelevant. All you're really trying to specify is that they are
having the same (conscious?) thoughts.
Just to remind that the measure of indeterminacy is on the
distinguishable first person experiences, or some equivalence class.
That leads to counter-intuitive difficulties making mandatory the use
of the self-reference logics g and G* and the "& p" or "& <>t"
intensional nuances.
Do they have exactly the same point-of-view?
Thay have the exactly same 1p history, yes.
You say they are in the exact same state and environment. So is
the environment the same? Is it the same at the quantum level?
The same quantum interactions with cosmic rays, etc?
Yes. Exatly the same with respect to the substitution level. ...
better to make the environment virtual to add a bit of realism.
But, as you've used term before, the substitution level is defined
strictly in terms of psychology, i.e. having the same thoughts ...
does that include subconscious thoughts?
Well, if they never modify some future conscious thought, you do not
need to include them, but if they do, you will need to include them.
This is your thought experiment. Is it significant that it's
nomologically impossible? Two different places, even quite close
together, will experience different cosmic ray bombardment,
That is why I have used the virtual environment above: to guaranty
the numerical identity of the computations.
Bruno
different entanglements of quantum states, and these may make a
difference at the level of the computation.
Brent
I think Leibniz's identity of indiscernibles applies. But Leibniz
didn't know about quantum mechanics and superposition of states.
Nor do we, in that reasoning. We suppose a physical reality able to
run a universal Turing machine, but not much more, for the sake of
the theoretical reasoning.
Bruno
Brent
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