On 21 Apr 2017, at 20:43, John Clark wrote:
On Wed, Apr 19, 2017 at 9:42 PM, David Nyman <[email protected]>
wrote:
>> all that's really saying is that we have a subjective
feeling of time and space, but we already knew that.
> It goes well beyond that, as the narrative is at pains to set
out. Hoyle's physicist protagonist invites the other main character
to place himself in the subjective position represented by any of
the pigeon holes, in any order. Then he asks him to explain what he
thinks his subjective experience would be. His response (the guy is
very quick on the uptake) is that his experience would appear to be
perfectly normally sequenced from a psycho-historical point of
view, despite random ordering from an external perspective.
As far as intelligence is concerned when reduced to their simplest
form Hoyle's pigeon holes could just contain a bit
of tape with either a 1 or a zero written on it. But you were
talking about consciousness not intelligence, and in
Hoyles analogy the pigeon holes corresponds to events in the real
world, but what in the real world corresponds to the light
that is sporadically shined on various pigeon holes from time to
time? I don't think Hoyle had an answer to that question. Also
that light can't just read things it needs to be able to write
things too because both intelligence and consciousness require
memory; it's been a long time since I read the book but I think
Hoyle was rather vague about that too.
> only a single 1-view can possibly represent me *at that one
time and that one place*.
I don't think it makes much sense to say consciousness has a
place, nouns have a place, well some nouns do (the number eleven
does not) but consciousness is not a noun.
You are right. Consciousness is not a physical things having a
location-time. That is explained by the thought experiences given.
But David did not say that consciousness (or more generally 1p view)
has a location-time, he said that only an 1p-view can *represent* me
at a location-time.
That is very different, and you were going in his direction.
Bruno
And as for time, if I could reverse time so that you could remember
the future with great accuracy but could only make very fallible
guesses about the past you would have no way of telling I had done
anything at all. The same would be true if I reset your life so you
were back in the third grade and you had to relive your entire life
again up to today.
Using Hoyle's analogy, the key ingredient to your individuality is
not where the pigeon holes are, or when they are illuminated,
it is in the sequence of on and off flashes. Yes there is only one
such sequence but it can be implemented in many places and run
many different times. That sequence no more has a time or a place
than the number eleven does.
> here we have a single view representing my subjective
situation at one time and in one place. A difference which as you
rightly say makes no difference is generally agreed to be no
difference, isn't that so?
Yes that is so, but there are circumstances where it could make a
difference. For example, suppose there are 2 flashlights
in perfect synchronization shining their light on the same sequence
of pigeon holes at the same time, and then one of the
flashlights is instantaneously destroyed. I maintain the subjective
experience would not be effected, provided light corresponds to
conscious attention. In this context when Hoyle said
"light" I'm sure he didn't mean electromagnetic waves, so I
wish Hoyle had explained what that light is and how it works.
John K Clark
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