On 11/17/2017 4:04 PM, [email protected] wrote:
On Friday, November 17, 2017 at 2:38:40 PM UTC-7, Brent wrote:
On 11/17/2017 1:17 PM, [email protected] <javascript:> wrote:
*I think "must" is unwarranted, certainly in the case of the MWI.
Rather, it ASSUMES all possible measurements must be realized in
some world. I see no reason for this assumption other than an
insistence to fully reify the wf in order to avoid "collapse".
Same situation in String Theory; no "must"; simply other possible
universes in the landscape. Do you really think that when you
pull a slot machine and get some outcome, the 10 million other
possible outcomes occur in 10 million other universe? Seems
ridiculous to me.*
The problem is a conflict:
(1) If the wave-function collapses when does it do it and what is
the process.
*The fact that we have unsolved problems, does not suggest we should
grasp as straws such as the MWI. *
Does a human being have to look at the record? Is simply having a
recorde enough? But then what constitutes a record? Does it have
be made of more than 100 atoms, more than 10, more than 1? How is
the record created, if not by evolution of the Schrodinger equation?
*If you consider a specific experiment, say the double slit using
micro objects like electrons, all you need is a recorder, any
recorder, and if it is designed to determine which-way, the
interference is destroyed. Thus, you don't need humans or
consciousness in any form to collapse the wf. Feynman discusses this
and it's quite conclusive IMO.
*
But you need to "collapse" it somehow by measuring the position of the
electrons - otherwise there is no interference pattern. So the question
remains, what is a measurement? If you replace the film by an array of
atoms and you plan to measure where the electron lands by which atom it
strikes and ejects from the array, you will them have to make a second
measurement to see which atoms are missing. So "measurement" must
include more interaction than that; enough interaction to constitute a
"record". But that seems to just reword the problem. How much of a
"record"? and what constitutes a record?
(2)If it's created by a splitting of the world, then you still
have the same questions with "splitting" in places of "collapse"
except that the SE does provide the evolution. But then in the
Schrodinger cat experiment the world is splitting */continuously/*.
*
*
*IMO, the problem posed by the cat is a macro object in an unthinkable
superposition of Alive and Dead simultaneously. But if the object is
macro, won't the interference terms be vanishingly small, so small
that the unthinkable conclusion does not occur in the lifetime of the
universe? IOW, FAPP there is no superposition and thus no enigmatic
superposition.*
Forget the cat. It's the radioactive atom whose emission will break the
vial that causes the continuous splitting of the world: decay at
0:00...0:01...0:02.... And is FAPP enough? There are going to be
intermediate cases in which there are 10 dof instead 1e30 dof, and the
superposition can be eliminated by a change of basis.
Brent
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