On Saturday, December 23, 2017 at 11:20:27 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > > On 22 Dec 2017, at 16:21, Lawrence Crowell wrote: > > > > On Wednesday, December 20, 2017 at 6:36:39 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > > On 19 Dec 2017, at 20:08, agrays...@gmail.com wrote: > > > > On Tuesday, December 19, 2017 at 4:48:48 PM UTC, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > > On 18 Dec 2017, at 00:34, agrays...@gmail.com wrote: > > > That makes things worst. Toy will make physical outcomes directly > dependent of the consciousness/knowledge of the observer. > > > Why do you and Clark persist in this error? Collapse, if it occurs, does > NOT depend on human consciousness. > > > OK but what you said made it depending of consciousness. There is no > collapse possible with the SWE, so what is the collapse? All theories > introducing a collapse in between the consciousness of the observer and the > observed objects seem highly speculative to me. > > > Measurement is just a specific instance of decoherence. There have been > "effective measurements" for billions of years. > > > OK. But not just in the universal wave, also in arithmetic, and Mechanism > forces them to be equivalent at some level, in a verifiable way/ > > What is proved is that in all theories rich enough to add and multiplied > distinguishable inductive termes, like numbers, or combinators, universal > numbers and universal combinators exists, and we have to retrieved physics > from arithmetic using the self-referential abilities of the universal > machines (the Löbian chatty one). > > > I would agree to the extent these objects connect with Grothendieck's categories or Motivic. Quantum mechanics and spacetime physics share properties of "magma" that is a category type.
> > Chert or flint carry cosmic ray tracks, which indicate particles (likely > muons) had their wave functions reduced with the interaction of the rock > material many millions of years ago. > > > Not at all. When *we* do a measurement w just localized ourselves in the > universal wave/matrix (it works in all pictures). The wave never collapse. > I like feynman when he describe the collapse as a collective hallucination. > It is exactly what Mechanism ensures. > I tend to think the geologist looking at cosmic ray tracks in chert is performing a classical measurement, at least on the level of FAPP. The quantum phase of superposition or entanglement associated with the state reduction of particles interacting with the stone are long gone. They have gone the way of T-rex or what ever other creatures lived then. The phase still exists, for if we think unitarity if fundamental then overlap phases and entanglement phases are conserved, but in this case the overlap phases has long ago done the "Elvis has left the building." What ever quantum phases there are associated with the track are from more recent interactions. LC > > > > > > I have a hard time thinking that a geologist looking at this has performed > a quantum measurement that reduces the wave function then and there. It > does not do much to invoke life either, for I doubt that an unusually smart > trilobite or cockroach in the Paleozoic epoch would perform a measurement > with some conscious idea of QM. > > ... -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
