2018-05-28 14:54 GMT+02:00 <[email protected]>: > > > On Monday, May 28, 2018 at 11:49:49 AM UTC, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> >> >> On 26 May 2018, at 22:56, [email protected] wrote: >> >> >> >> On Saturday, May 26, 2018 at 9:56:39 AM UTC, scerir wrote: >>> >>> Aristotle distinguishes two aspects of ordinary things: form and matter. >>> >>> Form only exists when it enforms matter. Matter is just potential to be >>> enformed. >>> >>> Aristotle identifies matter with potentiality, form with actuality. >>> >>> "For, as we said, word substance has three meanings, form, matter, and >>> the complex of both and of these three, what is called matter is >>> potentiality, what is called form actuality." (De Anima, II) >>> >>> (According to Heisenberg wavefunctions are "potentialities", at least >>> before measurements). >>> >> >> Bruno exudes extreme aversion to "primary matter”, >> >> >> >> Not at all. >> >> I just show that the assumption of primary matter contradicts the >> assumption of mechanism (that is not obvious and requires some work). >> Mechanism is incompatible with (weak) Materailsm (the belief that there is >> some ontologically primitive/irreducible matter). >> > > What is "primary matter"? AG >
Simply matter as an ontological primitive... ie: irreducible to something else, which is the base of reality. Quentin > >> Then I show how to test it, and how I have tested it, and the evidences >> available up to now sides with Mechanism, against (weak) materialism. >> >> I only have aversion with contradiction. >> >> >> >> >> and Aristotle, the presumed creator of the concept. But it's hard to see >> what exactly he objects to. >> >> >> I object to nothing. I prove that mechanism (Yes-doctor + Church’s >> thesis) are logically incompatible, or epistemologically impossible. (The >> phrasing can depend on some other metaphysical assumptions). >> >> Then I explain why today evidences strongly suggests mechanism. >> >> I certainly object to the idea that “materialism” has been proved, or >> that physicalism is the only modern option, and common misuse of physics in >> metaphysics. >> >> You will need to understand how the notion of computation has been >> discovered by mathematicians, in arithmetic. Gödel 1931 made the hard work, >> and Gödel missed it, but then people like Church, Turing and Kleene will >> make all this transparent, as Gödel explained himself. >> >> Ask any question. I worked hard to make the main argument available to >> anyone having a small amount of passive understanding of how a (physical if >> you want) computer is functioning. There nothing hard to understand, except >> for having some ability to doubt metaphysical prejudices. >> >> If you understand what is a computation, you will, with some small amount >> of work understand that all computation are executed in arithmetic, which >> is enough to doubt *primary* matter (for which there has never been any >> evidence as the antic dream argument already showed). But the reasoning I >> shared here run deeper, and eventually, in the mathematical part, get >> constructive, so that we can make the test, and thanks to >> QM-without-collapse, it fits rather well. >> >> Bruno >> >> >> >> >> >> You seem quite erudite on a variety of subjects. Is this a general >> characteristic of farmers in Italy today? Inquiring minds want to know. AG >> >>> >>> Il 26 maggio 2018 alle 10.13 [email protected] ha scritto: >>> >>> What is it according to Aristotle (or whoever is responsible for the >>> concept), and what is the basis for refuting its existence? -- in 25 words >>> or less. AG >>> >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "Everything List" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to [email protected]. >>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>> >>> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Everything List" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected]. >> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> >> >> -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain. (Roy Batty/Rutger Hauer) -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
