On Monday, May 28, 2018 at 1:08:49 PM UTC, Quentin Anciaux wrote: > > > > 2018-05-28 14:54 GMT+02:00 <[email protected] <javascript:>>: > >> >> >> On Monday, May 28, 2018 at 11:49:49 AM UTC, Bruno Marchal wrote: >>> >>> >>> On 26 May 2018, at 22:56, [email protected] wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> On Saturday, May 26, 2018 at 9:56:39 AM UTC, scerir wrote: >>>> >>>> Aristotle distinguishes two aspects of ordinary things: form and >>>> matter. >>>> >>>> Form only exists when it enforms matter. Matter is just potential to be >>>> enformed. >>>> >>>> Aristotle identifies matter with potentiality, form with actuality. >>>> >>>> "For, as we said, word substance has three meanings, form, matter, and >>>> the complex of both and of these three, what is called matter is >>>> potentiality, what is called form actuality." (De Anima, II) >>>> >>>> (According to Heisenberg wavefunctions are "potentialities", at least >>>> before measurements). >>>> >>> >>> Bruno exudes extreme aversion to "primary matter”, >>> >>> >>> >>> Not at all. >>> >>> I just show that the assumption of primary matter contradicts the >>> assumption of mechanism (that is not obvious and requires some work). >>> Mechanism is incompatible with (weak) Materailsm (the belief that there is >>> some ontologically primitive/irreducible matter). >>> >> >> What is "primary matter"? AG >> > > Simply matter as an ontological primitive... > > ie: irreducible to something else, which is the base of reality. > > Quentin >
Matter takes many forms but is reducible to energy. Thus, matter isn't primary. AG > >>> Then I show how to test it, and how I have tested it, and the evidences >>> available up to now sides with Mechanism, against (weak) materialism. >>> >>> I only have aversion with contradiction. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> and Aristotle, the presumed creator of the concept. But it's hard to see >>> what exactly he objects to. >>> >>> >>> I object to nothing. I prove that mechanism (Yes-doctor + Church’s >>> thesis) are logically incompatible, or epistemologically impossible. (The >>> phrasing can depend on some other metaphysical assumptions). >>> >>> Then I explain why today evidences strongly suggests mechanism. >>> >>> I certainly object to the idea that “materialism” has been proved, or >>> that physicalism is the only modern option, and common misuse of physics in >>> metaphysics. >>> >>> You will need to understand how the notion of computation has been >>> discovered by mathematicians, in arithmetic. Gödel 1931 made the hard work, >>> and Gödel missed it, but then people like Church, Turing and Kleene will >>> make all this transparent, as Gödel explained himself. >>> >>> Ask any question. I worked hard to make the main argument available to >>> anyone having a small amount of passive understanding of how a (physical if >>> you want) computer is functioning. There nothing hard to understand, except >>> for having some ability to doubt metaphysical prejudices. >>> >>> If you understand what is a computation, you will, with some small >>> amount of work understand that all computation are executed in arithmetic, >>> which is enough to doubt *primary* matter (for which there has never been >>> any evidence as the antic dream argument already showed). But the reasoning >>> I shared here run deeper, and eventually, in the mathematical part, get >>> constructive, so that we can make the test, and thanks to >>> QM-without-collapse, it fits rather well. >>> >>> Bruno >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> You seem quite erudite on a variety of subjects. Is this a general >>> characteristic of farmers in Italy today? Inquiring minds want to know. AG >>> >>>> >>>> Il 26 maggio 2018 alle 10.13 [email protected] ha scritto: >>>> >>>> What is it according to Aristotle (or whoever is responsible for the >>>> concept), and what is the basis for refuting its existence? -- in 25 words >>>> or less. AG >>>> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>> Groups "Everything List" group. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>> an email to [email protected]. >>>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. >>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>> >>>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>> Groups "Everything List" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>> an email to [email protected]. >>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>> >>> >>> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Everything List" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected] <javascript:>. >> To post to this group, send email to [email protected] >> <javascript:>. >> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> > > > > -- > All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain. (Roy > Batty/Rutger Hauer) > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
