> On 28 May 2018, at 21:58, [email protected] wrote: > > > > On Monday, May 28, 2018 at 1:08:49 PM UTC, Quentin Anciaux wrote: > > > 2018-05-28 14:54 GMT+02:00 <[email protected] <javascript:>>: > > > On Monday, May 28, 2018 at 11:49:49 AM UTC, Bruno Marchal wrote: > >> On 26 May 2018, at 22:56, [email protected] <> wrote: >> >> >> >> On Saturday, May 26, 2018 at 9:56:39 AM UTC, scerir wrote: >> Aristotle distinguishes two aspects of ordinary things: form and matter. >> >> Form only exists when it enforms matter. Matter is just potential to be >> enformed. >> >> Aristotle identifies matter with potentiality, form with actuality. >> >> "For, as we said, word substance has three meanings, form, matter, and the >> complex of both and of these three, what is called matter is potentiality, >> what is called form actuality." (De Anima, II) >> >> (According to Heisenberg wavefunctions are "potentialities", at least before >> measurements). >> >> >> Bruno exudes extreme aversion to "primary matter”, > > > Not at all. > > I just show that the assumption of primary matter contradicts the assumption > of mechanism (that is not obvious and requires some work). Mechanism is > incompatible with (weak) Materailsm (the belief that there is some > ontologically primitive/irreducible matter). > > What is "primary matter"? AG > > Simply matter as an ontological primitive... > > ie: irreducible to something else, which is the base of reality. > > Quentin > > Matter takes many forms but is reducible to energy. Thus, matter isn't > primary. AG
Energy, time, space, etc. are all matter in the metaphysical sense. There are physical observable, measurable. If physicalism or materialism is false, it means that matter/energy/time/whatever studied by empirical means, is explained as appearance in a non material reality. Indeed the arithmetical reality has to be enough, by a reasoning in the mechanist theory. And up to now, contemporary physics confirms this. (Does not prove, of course, as we can never prove anything about reality, not even that a reality exists). We can only know our consciousness here and now, but even that cannot be proved. (That is not astonishing, no machine can prove already all arithmetical 3p truth, so we have to get use to this). Bruno > > Then I show how to test it, and how I have tested it, and the evidences > available up to now sides with Mechanism, against (weak) materialism. > > I only have aversion with contradiction. > > > > >> and Aristotle, the presumed creator of the concept. But it's hard to see >> what exactly he objects to. > > I object to nothing. I prove that mechanism (Yes-doctor + Church’s thesis) > are logically incompatible, or epistemologically impossible. (The phrasing > can depend on some other metaphysical assumptions). > > Then I explain why today evidences strongly suggests mechanism. > > I certainly object to the idea that “materialism” has been proved, or that > physicalism is the only modern option, and common misuse of physics in > metaphysics. > > You will need to understand how the notion of computation has been discovered > by mathematicians, in arithmetic. Gödel 1931 made the hard work, and Gödel > missed it, but then people like Church, Turing and Kleene will make all this > transparent, as Gödel explained himself. > > Ask any question. I worked hard to make the main argument available to anyone > having a small amount of passive understanding of how a (physical if you > want) computer is functioning. There nothing hard to understand, except for > having some ability to doubt metaphysical prejudices. > > If you understand what is a computation, you will, with some small amount of > work understand that all computation are executed in arithmetic, which is > enough to doubt *primary* matter (for which there has never been any evidence > as the antic dream argument already showed). But the reasoning I shared here > run deeper, and eventually, in the mathematical part, get constructive, so > that we can make the test, and thanks to QM-without-collapse, it fits rather > well. > > Bruno > > > > > >> You seem quite erudite on a variety of subjects. Is this a general >> characteristic of farmers in Italy today? Inquiring minds want to know. AG >> >>> Il 26 maggio 2018 alle 10.13 [email protected] <> ha scritto: >>> >>> What is it according to Aristotle (or whoever is responsible for the >>> concept), and what is the basis for refuting its existence? -- in 25 words >>> or less. AG >>> >>> >>> -- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>> "Everything List" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >>> email to [email protected] <>. >>> To post to this group, send email to [email protected] <>. >>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list >>> <https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list>. >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout >>> <https://groups.google.com/d/optout>. >> >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Everything List" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected] <>. >> To post to this group, send email to [email protected] <>. >> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list >> <https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list>. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout >> <https://groups.google.com/d/optout>. > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected] <javascript:>. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected] > <javascript:>. > Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list > <https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list>. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout > <https://groups.google.com/d/optout>. > > > > -- > All those moments will be lost in time, like tears in rain. (Roy Batty/Rutger > Hauer) > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]>. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]>. > Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list > <https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list>. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout > <https://groups.google.com/d/optout>. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
