> On 11 Jun 2018, at 07:06, [email protected] wrote: > > > > On Monday, June 11, 2018 at 2:20:47 AM UTC, [email protected] wrote: > > > On Monday, June 11, 2018 at 2:09:25 AM UTC, Bruce wrote: > From: <[email protected] <>> >> On Monday, June 11, 2018 at 1:37:53 AM UTC, Bruce wrote: >> From: Bruno Marchal <[email protected] <> >> Everett prove the contrary, and he convinced me when I read it. I found “his >> proof” used in many books on quantum computing, although with different >> motivation. Thee result of an experiment, obviously depend of what you >> measure, but when you embed the observer in the wave, you get that what they >> find is independent of the choice of the base used to describe the >> “observer” and the “observed”. If not, the MW would already be refuted. >> >> In that case, MW is refuted. Clearly, what the observer finds is dependent >> on the basis in which he is described. Or else experiments would not have >> definite results when described in the laboratory from the 1p perspective. >> Even if you take the 'bird' view of the whole multiverse -- which is, I >> agree, independent of the basis in which it is described -- the view of any >> observer embedded in the multiverse is totally basis-dependent. That is, >> after all, what we mean by 'worlds' -- the view from within, or the 1p view. >> But that view depends on how you describe it: the way in which you partition >> the multiverse itself. Only certain very special bases are robust against >> environmental decoherence -- how else do you resolve the Schrödinger cat >> issue? >> >> Bruce >> >> So you find the resolution in the fact that according to decoherence theory, >> the cat is simultaneously alive and dead for only short time? AG > > Decoherence has resolved the basis question long before the cyanide has hit > the cat. > > Bruce > > I don't think you've answered the question. Isn't the cat in a superposition > of alive and dead before the cyanide hits? Did Schroedinger write an > incorrect wf? If so, what is the correct one IYO? AG > > I surmise your position is that decoherence happens so quickly, that the > superposition Schroedinger wrote was really a mixed state. If so, I don't see > this as a solution to the paradox, unless you want to allow the existence of > a simultaneously alive and dead cat for a very, very short time. AG
That is why I prefer Bohm’s version of the cat, where the cat alive/dead state is corrupted with the up/down state of some particles. It ease the mind by showing that the time is not an issue. If you can completely isolate the cat from the environment (which is technically impossible), you can maintain the cat in the dead + alive superposition state as long as you want. If you isolate successfully the entire laboratory including you, Then, someone else can resurrect the cat, relatively to himself, despite you saw it dead. The reason why we cannot do this in principle, is that we cannot isolate the cat, and if the cat, when the cat is dead+alive, interact with some particles in the environment, you can no mare factorize the cat state, without tracking that particles. I don’t think it make sense to confine the superposition in the microscopic domain, nor in the short-time domain. If the SWE is correct, the superposition never disappear, unless a collapse assumption is made, but then it cannot be described by QM. Only by QM + exception rules for the observer or the measuring apparatus, but there are no evidences for that. Bruno > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]>. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]>. > Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list > <https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list>. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout > <https://groups.google.com/d/optout>. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
