On 6/11/2018 7:12 PM, [email protected] wrote:
On Tuesday, June 12, 2018 at 1:53:42 AM UTC, Brent wrote:
On 6/11/2018 6:26 PM, [email protected] <javascript:> wrote:
On Monday, June 11, 2018 at 10:57:59 PM UTC, Brent wrote:
On 6/11/2018 3:22 PM, [email protected] wrote:
I am not sure this make sense (with the SWE). The
cat is always isolated, in some sense.
*
IMO totally wrong. In fact now you're contradicting what
you wrote in a recent post. The cat is NEVER ISOLATED,
VIRTUALLY BY DEFINITION OF WHAT MACRO MEANS. NEVER
ISOLATED IMPLIES NEVER IN A SUPERPOSITION. AG
*
*
In the real world the cat is never isolated, nor can it be
isolated insofar as it consists of a huge number of
particles already entangled with its environment. This is
the meaning of "macro" ! If you insist on imagining it as
isolated for your thought experiment, you will generate a
paradox, as Schroedinger did. AG*
Schroedinger obviously chose a cat to emphasize the
absurdity, but it also makes the analysis hard to think
about. Not only is the cat macroscopic, the atomic decay is
distributed over a continuum. I think it helps to think of a
simpler experiment in which the atom is just in a box which
is lined with photographic plates. So the atom is in a
superposition of undecayed and decayed and interacted with a
silver halide atom. It is clear that it is the interaction
with the silver halide atom that gets amplified to a
macroscopic dot of silver which decoheres the system in
orthogonal "worlds" in which the spot is in different places
and happens at different times.
Brent
*I don't see how a single silver halide atom is amplified to a
macroscopic dot of silver. *
That's because you don't bother to look up anything. You expect
other people to look it up for you and then explain it to you.
Here's Wikipedia, but I'm not explaining it.
*
The original SINGLE atom in your example is not amplified, as I
suspected. More important, you ducked the main issue IMO. AG *
As Oliver Heaviside said, "I have given you an explanation. I'm not
obliged to give you an understanding."
Brent
/Silver halides are used in photographic film and photographic
paper, including graphic art film and paper, where silver halide
crystals in gelatin are coated on to a film base, glass or paper
substrate. The gelatin is a vital part of the emulsion as the
protective colloid of appropriate physical and chemical
properties. Gelatin may also contain trace elements (such as
sulfur) which increase the light sensitivity of the emulsion,
although modern practice uses gelatin without such components.
When absorbed by an AgX crystal, photons cause electrons to be
promoted to a conduction band (de-localized electron orbital with
higher energy than a valence band) which can be attracted by a
sensitivity speck, which is a shallow electron trap, which may be
a crystalline defect or a cluster of silver sulfide, gold, other
trace elements (dopant), or combination thereof, and then combined
with an interstitial silver ion to form silver metal speck.[1]//
//
//When a silver halide crystal is exposed to light, a sensitivity
speck on the surface of the crystal is turned into a small speck
of metallic silver (these comprise the invisible or latent image).
If the speck of silver contains approximately four or more atoms,
it is rendered developable - meaning that it can undergo
development which turns the entire crystal into metallic silver.
/Brent/
/
*Going back to my analysis, I think I have shown the fallacy of
using a macro entities in a superposition (since they can never
be isolated). But this is the starting point of decoherence
theory, as exemplified by the wf Bruce recently presented for a
spin 1/2 measurement (where the apparatus, observer and remaining
environment appear in the superposition). AG*
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