On Tuesday, June 12, 2018 at 2:35:10 AM UTC, Brent wrote: > > > > On 6/11/2018 7:12 PM, [email protected] <javascript:> wrote: > > > > On Tuesday, June 12, 2018 at 1:53:42 AM UTC, Brent wrote: >> >> >> >> On 6/11/2018 6:26 PM, [email protected] wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >> On Monday, June 11, 2018 at 10:57:59 PM UTC, Brent wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> On 6/11/2018 3:22 PM, [email protected] wrote: >>> >>> >>>>> I am not sure this make sense (with the SWE). The cat is always >>>>> isolated, in some sense. >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> * IMO totally wrong. In fact now you're contradicting what you wrote in >>>> a recent post. The cat is NEVER ISOLATED, VIRTUALLY BY DEFINITION OF WHAT >>>> MACRO MEANS. NEVER ISOLATED IMPLIES NEVER IN A SUPERPOSITION. AG * >>>> >>> >>> * In the real world the cat is never isolated, nor can it be isolated >>> insofar as it consists of a huge number of particles already entangled with >>> its environment. This is the meaning of "macro" ! If you insist on >>> imagining it as isolated for your thought experiment, you will generate a >>> paradox, as Schroedinger did. AG* >>> >>> >>> Schroedinger obviously chose a cat to emphasize the absurdity, but it >>> also makes the analysis hard to think about. Not only is the cat >>> macroscopic, the atomic decay is distributed over a continuum. I think it >>> helps to think of a simpler experiment in which the atom is just in a box >>> which is lined with photographic plates. So the atom is in a superposition >>> of undecayed and decayed and interacted with a silver halide atom. It is >>> clear that it is the interaction with the silver halide atom that gets >>> amplified to a macroscopic dot of silver which decoheres the system in >>> orthogonal "worlds" in which the spot is in different places and happens at >>> different times. >>> >>> Brent >>> >> >> *I don't see how a single silver halide atom is amplified to a >> macroscopic dot of silver. * >> >> >> That's because you don't bother to look up anything. You expect other >> people to look it up for you and then explain it to you. Here's Wikipedia, >> but I'm not explaining it. >> > > * The original SINGLE atom in your example is not amplified, as I > suspected. More important, you ducked the main issue IMO. AG * > > > As Oliver Heaviside said, "I have given you an explanation. I'm not > obliged to give you an understanding." > > Brent >
*I don't see what your example is supposed to demonstrate; that the sliver of silver is macro, isolated, and then decoheres? Why is it isolated? Even so, how does that justify putting macro entities in superpositions? Maybe I should ask Heaviside. But first I need to first consult Clark who will know how to resurrect him (Heaviside). **AG* > > >> *Silver halides are used in photographic film and photographic paper, >> including graphic art film and paper, where silver halide crystals in >> gelatin are coated on to a film base, glass or paper substrate. The gelatin >> is a vital part of the emulsion as the protective colloid of appropriate >> physical and chemical properties. Gelatin may also contain trace elements >> (such as sulfur) which increase the light sensitivity of the emulsion, >> although modern practice uses gelatin without such components. When >> absorbed by an AgX crystal, photons cause electrons to be promoted to a >> conduction band (de-localized electron orbital with higher energy than a >> valence band) which can be attracted by a sensitivity speck, which is a >> shallow electron trap, which may be a crystalline defect or a cluster of >> silver sulfide, gold, other trace elements (dopant), or combination >> thereof, and then combined with an interstitial silver ion to form silver >> metal speck.[1]* >> >> >> >> *When a silver halide crystal is exposed to light, a sensitivity speck on >> the surface of the crystal is turned into a small speck of metallic silver >> (these comprise the invisible or latent image). If the speck of silver >> contains approximately four or more atoms, it is rendered developable - >> meaning that it can undergo development which turns the entire crystal into >> metallic silver. *Brent >> >> *Going back to my analysis, I think I have shown the fallacy of using a >> macro entities in a superposition (since they can never be isolated). But >> this is the starting point of decoherence theory, as exemplified by the wf >> Bruce recently presented for a spin 1/2 measurement (where the apparatus, >> observer and remaining environment appear in the superposition). AG* >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Everything List" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected]. >> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> >> >> -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected] <javascript:>. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected] > <javascript:>. > Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
