On Tuesday, June 12, 2018 at 1:53:42 AM UTC, Brent wrote: > > > > On 6/11/2018 6:26 PM, [email protected] <javascript:> wrote: > > > > > > On Monday, June 11, 2018 at 10:57:59 PM UTC, Brent wrote: >> >> >> >> On 6/11/2018 3:22 PM, [email protected] wrote: >> >> >>>> I am not sure this make sense (with the SWE). The cat is always >>>> isolated, in some sense. >>>> >>> >>> >>> * IMO totally wrong. In fact now you're contradicting what you wrote in >>> a recent post. The cat is NEVER ISOLATED, VIRTUALLY BY DEFINITION OF WHAT >>> MACRO MEANS. NEVER ISOLATED IMPLIES NEVER IN A SUPERPOSITION. AG * >>> >> >> * In the real world the cat is never isolated, nor can it be isolated >> insofar as it consists of a huge number of particles already entangled with >> its environment. This is the meaning of "macro" ! If you insist on >> imagining it as isolated for your thought experiment, you will generate a >> paradox, as Schroedinger did. AG* >> >> >> Schroedinger obviously chose a cat to emphasize the absurdity, but it >> also makes the analysis hard to think about. Not only is the cat >> macroscopic, the atomic decay is distributed over a continuum. I think it >> helps to think of a simpler experiment in which the atom is just in a box >> which is lined with photographic plates. So the atom is in a superposition >> of undecayed and decayed and interacted with a silver halide atom. It is >> clear that it is the interaction with the silver halide atom that gets >> amplified to a macroscopic dot of silver which decoheres the system in >> orthogonal "worlds" in which the spot is in different places and happens at >> different times. >> >> Brent >> > > *I don't see how a single silver halide atom is amplified to a macroscopic > dot of silver. * > > > That's because you don't bother to look up anything. You expect other > people to look it up for you and then explain it to you. Here's Wikipedia, > but I'm not explaining it. >
*The original SINGLE atom in your example is not amplified, as I suspected. More important, you ducked the main issue IMO. AG * > > *Silver halides are used in photographic film and photographic paper, > including graphic art film and paper, where silver halide crystals in > gelatin are coated on to a film base, glass or paper substrate. The gelatin > is a vital part of the emulsion as the protective colloid of appropriate > physical and chemical properties. Gelatin may also contain trace elements > (such as sulfur) which increase the light sensitivity of the emulsion, > although modern practice uses gelatin without such components. When > absorbed by an AgX crystal, photons cause electrons to be promoted to a > conduction band (de-localized electron orbital with higher energy than a > valence band) which can be attracted by a sensitivity speck, which is a > shallow electron trap, which may be a crystalline defect or a cluster of > silver sulfide, gold, other trace elements (dopant), or combination > thereof, and then combined with an interstitial silver ion to form silver > metal speck.[1]* > > > > *When a silver halide crystal is exposed to light, a sensitivity speck on > the surface of the crystal is turned into a small speck of metallic silver > (these comprise the invisible or latent image). If the speck of silver > contains approximately four or more atoms, it is rendered developable - > meaning that it can undergo development which turns the entire crystal into > metallic silver. *Brent > > *Going back to my analysis, I think I have shown the fallacy of using a > macro entities in a superposition (since they can never be isolated). But > this is the starting point of decoherence theory, as exemplified by the wf > Bruce recently presented for a spin 1/2 measurement (where the apparatus, > observer and remaining environment appear in the superposition). AG* > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected] <javascript:>. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected] > <javascript:>. > Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
