On Monday, December 3, 2018 at 11:59:21 AM UTC-6, Philip Thrift wrote: > > > > On Monday, December 3, 2018 at 9:12:54 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> >> >> On 2 Dec 2018, at 14:45, Philip Thrift <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> >> >> On Sunday, December 2, 2018 at 6:52:38 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: >>> >>> >>> On 30 Nov 2018, at 17:44, Philip Thrift <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> On Friday, November 30, 2018 at 6:39:19 AM UTC-6, [email protected] >>> wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Friday, November 30, 2018 at 9:13:29 AM UTC, Bruno Marchal wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> *This may be a simplistic pov, but since there was IMO no Original >>>>> Sin, there was no need for a Sacrifice for its forgiveness. Under this >>>>> view, Christianity is overwhelmingly an illusion. And since Theology >>>>> seems >>>>> to be primarily an extended argument about the historical history and >>>>> truths about Christianity, it too is essentially worthless; an extended >>>>> wrangling over nothing. AG * >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> That comes from the 1500 years of brainwashing. I use theology in the >>>>> sense of Plato, not the Gospel. Only atheists believe in JC, >>>>> >>>> >>>> *Really? It seems you never met any Christians on a personal level. If >>>> you did, you'd see how uninformed you are. AG* >>>> >>>> >>>>> except for the TV evangelist, which are arguably con men. >>>>> That was the goal of the Christian after 529. To make us forget that >>>>> the original question of the greeks was about the existence of a >>>>> (primary) >>>>> physical universe. God exist by definition: it is, by definition, the >>>>> truth >>>>> we intuit to be larger than ourselves. >>>>> >>>> >>>> *I really doubt the question about the nature of matter has been >>>> forgotten. AG * >>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>> >>> There is no truth outside of language, and matter's just another word >>> for nothing left to lose. >>> >>> >>> >>> Language have no relation with truth a priori. Theories might have. >>> Semantics are truth “by definition”, by relativising it to the notion of >>> model/reality. >>> >>> Bruno >>> >>> >> >> >> *Rorty* is right, I think: Better not to use the word "truth" at all. >> >> >> In any argument, we cannot invoke “truth", nor “real”, nor “god” etc. All >> this for the same basic reason which is justified in the Mechanist theory >> by their provable non definability (à-la Tarski). >> >> >> >> >> >> It's just "justification". Or "judgment" (a type-theoretic term). >> >> >> But that is close to the solipsist move. The fact that we cannot define >> truth does not entail that some notion of truth does not make sense. In >> particular, Peano arithmetic can already define an infinity of >> approximation of truth, namely sigma_i and pi_i truth (the truth of the >> sentences will a finite and fixed number of quantifier, as opposed to >> finite sentences with an arbitrary finite number of quantifier). >> >> We can invoke truth, but we can develop meta-discourse relating truth to >> theories, like we cannot invoke our own consciousness does not prevent us >> to try theories about it. >> It is a bit like “I cannot study my own brain”, but I can still infer >> some theories of my brain by looking at the brain of others and then >> assuming that I am not different. >> >> Bruno >> >> >> > > A different perspective (!) of "truth" comes from - vs. PA (Peano > arithmetic) - *PLT* (programming language theory - the legacy to a large > extent of John C. Reynolds [ > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_C._Reynolds - who was originally a > theoretical physicist ], and sort of in parallel the whole type-theory > gang). Rather than an external "god-like" notion of truth, truth is in the > programming. > > - pt > > > I should also mention (in addition to John Reynolds) Peter Landin [ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Landin ] (who looked a lot like Richard Deacon [ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Deacon_(actor) - *The Dick Van Dyke Show*, *Leave It To Beaver* ].
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