On Tuesday, December 11, 2018 at 1:53:50 PM UTC-6, [email protected]
wrote:
>
>
>
> On Tuesday, December 11, 2018 at 7:30:32 PM UTC, Philip Thrift wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tuesday, December 11, 2018 at 1:02:52 PM UTC-6, [email protected]
>> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tuesday, December 11, 2018 at 6:44:34 PM UTC, Philip Thrift wrote:
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Tuesday, December 11, 2018 at 12:32:51 PM UTC-6, [email protected]
>>>> wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> * As for physicists being materialists in the sense of believing there
>>>>> is nothing underlying matter as its cause, I have never heard that
>>>>> position
>>>>> articulated by any physicist, in person or on the Internet. AG *
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Victor Stenger
>>>> *Materialism Deconstructed?*
>>>>
>>>> https://www.huffingtonpost.com/victor-stenger/materialism-deconstructed_b_2228362.html
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>> *I was once a member of Vic's discussion group. Vic believed in the
>>> reality of matter, in the sense that if you kick it, it kicks back. But he
>>> didn't deny the possibility that there could be something more fundamental
>>> underlying matter. This denial is what Bruno claims is the materialist
>>> position, but it surely wasn't Vic's position. You know this, of course,
>>> being a member of that group. Right? AG*
>>>
>>>>
>>>> - pt
>>>>
>>>
>>
>> I hosted Vic in Dallas in 2014 for a talk. I got to know him fairly
>> personally .
>>
>> Homages to philosophical materialism ("matter is the fundamental
>> substance in nature") is in his books. *Timeless Reality* in particular.
>>
>> One can be open-minded, or *ironist *in Rorty's definition [
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ironism ], and he was that.
>>
>> But despite all the "models" talk, I would confidently say he was always
>> a hardcore materialist.
>>
>> - pt
>>
>
> Show me one instance, just one, where Vic denied something causal and
> unknown underlying the existence of matter? This is Bruno's model of
> materialism among physicists but it clearly doesn't apply to Vic. AG
>
When Vic refutes that materialism ("all there is is matter") has been
refuted (as Vic did in his essay), he is asserting all there is is matter.
There is no matter + some ghosts behind matter. He wanted to banish the
ghosts (the immaterial).
- pt
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