On Tue, Dec 11, 2018 at 1:56 PM Jason Resch <[email protected]> wrote:
>>Without matter and the laws of physics there could be no objective >> statements or statements of any sort because there would be nobody around >> to make them. >> > > > *But we're talking about ultimate foundations of reality, * > Without physics reality would not need a foundation because there would be no reality, there would be nothing. And nothing could be explained not only because there would nobody to explain it to but more importantly because there would be nothing around that needs explaining. > *> you could always count the number of ways you could uniquely arrange > those items, leading to a bigger number, ad infinitum. For example. You > start with 3 objects. You could arrange them in 3! = 6 ways. If you then > arranged those arrangements, you would have 6! ways of doing that, etc. * > But suppose there were no 3 objects, suppose there were no objects at all in existence as would be the case without matter and physics. How many ways can you arrange nothing? As for "ad infinitum", it's easy to say arrange 3 objects in a infinite number of ways but to actually DO it you'd need a infinite amount of energy and space and time, and physics will not allow that. > > You are packing a lot of assumptions into your word "DO". > For something to DO anything a change must be made in space and time, and numbers never change in space and time, the language of mathematics will always and everywhere insist that the English language word "cow" has 3 letters. > *> You mean the numbers cannot affect the movement of particles in this > universe. * > There is certainly a relationship between matter and numbers but does matter describe numbers or do numbers describe matter? I think matter describes numbers and I can give you lots of examples of that, the most obvious is the physical brain of a mathematician. Bruno thinks numbers describe matter but is unable to provide a single example of this. > > *You have not shown that the arithmetical programs cannot simulate > conscious beings which would perceive themselves to exist within those > simulations.* > Forget consciousness, a computer program can't simulate anyone or do anything else either unless it is run on a Turing Machine made of matter that obeys the laws of physics. > >>> *Do we live in a Diophantine equation* >>> >> >> No. >> > > *> What is your argument?* > A Diophantine equation can not change in time or space therefore a Diophantine equation can not DO anything and a mind needs to change its thoughts or it won't be thinking. John K Clark -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
