On Sat, Dec 29, 2018 at 11:17 AM John Clark <[email protected]> wrote:
> On Fri, Dec 28, 2018 at 4:53 PM Bruce Kellett <[email protected]> > wrote: > > >> If the creation of the inflaton required conditions that existed when >>> the universe was 10^-44 seconds old and inflation had decayed away when it >>> was 10^-35 seconds old then the particle associated with the inflation >>> field would have decayed away too and we wouldn't expect to see it today >>> even at places where we can reproduce conditions the universe was in when >>> it was 10^-17 seconds old. If it still existed it would still be strongly >>> connected to regular matter but we could not detect it but the universe >>> could and would still be expanding at an exponential rate and galaxies >>> stars and planets would not exist, we couldn't detect it because we >>> wouldn't exist either. >>> >> >> *> Very good reasons for saying that no such field or particle exists, or >> have ever existed.* >> > > Or has ever existed? How do you figure that? > If they had ever existed, they would couple strongly to ordinary matter, and we would see such inflatons now. We don't, which is a very good reason for saying that they do not exist -- now or ever. > > *> I hope you understand the difference between thermal fluctuations and >> quantum fluctuations....* >> > > The thermal fluctuations that have been actually observed in the Cosmic > Microwave Background Radiation is consistent with them being caused by > random quantum fluctuations. Do you have an explanation for these > variations in temperature that does not involve random quantum > fluctuations? > There are no such things as such quantum fluctuations: such fluctuations would be local, and violate energy conservation. The fluctuations in the CMB are thermal, and were always so. > > *In GR, energy is not conserved in non-static space-times. * >> > > Yes. > > >> *> But energy is exactly conserved locally.* >> > > True but Irrelevant. Were talking about the most non-local thing we can > observe, the Cosmic Microwave Background Radiation. Before inflation all > parts of the CMB were locally connected and reached thermal equilibrium, > but even so due to quantum variation you could have found slight > differences in temperature if you had a sensitive enough thermometer and > looked at a small enough volume. > But you have just described seeing thermal fluctuations. Collections of particles in thermal equilibrium still show random fluctuations on the smallest scales -- Boltzmann distribution and all that. Bruce > But then after everything had expanded faster than light for 10^-35 > seconds and doubled in size 100 times things that were once causally > connected no longer were, that is to say they were no longer local and > never would be again. And then after things had expanded for another > 380,000 years at the far more sedate pace we see today we'd expect those > super tiny spots of slightly higher and lower temperature (2.724K to 2.726 > K) would no longer be super tiny, but none of them would be larger than > 380,000 light years across, and that's just what we do see. > > John K Clark > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
