Any finite execution trace can be replaced by a finite lookup map. So it is always finite. So up to N steps you can implements with a finite lookup table. Unless you have an infinite execution you have to have an infinite lookup table...but you can approximate the execution with a finite lookup table up to N steps... To fill it, you have to execute a correct implementation in the first place.
Le jeu. 2 mai 2019 à 17:44, Bruno Marchal <[email protected]> a écrit : > > On 1 May 2019, at 21:41, Quentin Anciaux <[email protected]> wrote: > > Map lookup is a valid implementation for any program you can conceive, > albeit a very ineffective one… > > > ? > > An implementation must be finite. For most programs, to implement them > with a look up table would need an infinite look up table. > > Bruno > > > > > > The chinese room is such implementation... And as much as my parts are not > me, i'm not the sum of my parts... > > Quentin > > Le mer. 1 mai 2019 à 20:34, Terren Suydam <[email protected]> a > écrit : > >> >> I would argue for "pancyberpsychism" (I'm no good at naming - is there a >> name for that already?) which is to say that there it is something it is >> like to do information processing of any kind. However, the quality of the >> consciousness involved in that processing is related to its dynamics. So >> banging on a rock involves a primitive form of information processing, as >> vibrations ripple through the rock - there it is something it is like for >> that rock to be banged on. For ongoing consciousness, some sort of feedback >> loop must be involved. A thermostat would be a primitive example of this, >> or a simple oscillating electric circuit. The main idea is that >> consciousness is associated with cybernetic organization and has nothing to >> do with substrate, which might be material or virtual. >> >> In the Chinese Room example the cybernetic characteristics of the thought >> experiment lack any true feedback mechanism. This is the case with most >> instances of software as we know it - e.g. traditional chess engines. There >> is something it is like to be them, but it's not anything we would >> recognize in terms of ongoing subjective awareness. One could argue that >> operation systems (including Mars Rovers) embody the cybernetic dynamics >> necessary for ongoing experience, but I'd guess that what it's like to be >> an operating system would be pretty alien. >> >> With biological brains, it's all about feedback and recursivity. Small >> insects with rudimentary nervous systems are totally recursive, feeding >> sensory data in and processing it continuously. So insect consciousness is >> much closer to our own than ordinary Von-Neumann architecture >> data-processing. >> >> As nervous systems get more complex, feeding in more data and processing >> data in much more sophisticated ways, the consciousness involved would >> likewise be experienced in a richer way. >> >> Humans, with our intricate conceptual, language-based self-models, >> achieve true self-consciousness. The self-model is a quantum leap forward, >> giving us the ability to say "I am". The ego gets a bad rap but it's >> responsible for our ability to notice ourselves and live within and create >> ongoing narratives about what we are, in relation to what we aren't. This >> explains why ego-dissolving psychedelics lead to such profound changes in >> consciousness. >> >> Terren >> >> On Wed, May 1, 2019 at 3:02 PM Quentin Anciaux <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> >>> >>> >>> Le mer. 1 mai 2019 à 18:13, 'Cosmin Visan' via Everything List < >>> [email protected]> a écrit : >>> >>>> How is a computer conscious ? Magic ? Are you even aware of the Chinese >>>> Room argument ? >>>> >>> >>> Yes, and how is the chinese room not conscious ? Because you have to >>> associate it either to the dumb person acting as processor or the rules ? >>> The chinese room as a whole information processing unit is conscious. If >>> you ask it, it will tell you so... Prove it is not. >>> >>> Quentin >>> >>>> >>>> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "Everything List" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to [email protected]. >> To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. >> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. 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