What happened to "only brains can be conscious"? Are you familiar with virtual machines? Machines simulated in software?
On Fri, May 3, 2019 at 10:10 AM <[email protected]> wrote: > > > The general response here is that there has never existed a program that > has executed outside a computer. And computers are made of matter. > > Now one can generalize "computer": There were things like the abacus and > slide rule, that executed "programs". Or one executes programs in the head > (so to speak). But this is the brain,. Again, matter. Or one takes one's > hand and a pencil or pen and executes a program on a piece of paper. > Again. all matter > > Now one can watch a movie (like 2001 with the HAL 9000) or read a book of > fiction where there is a program running on a some computer. But this is a > fictional story. > > One can imagine a program running on an imaginary computer, but this > imagining is all done in the brain. Matter. > > But give me an example of a program running in a "matter free" > environment: No brains, hands, pencils, computers, abacuses, slide rules, > around. > > Is it like some ghost out on its own in some immaterial realm? > > > @philipthift > > > > On Friday, May 3, 2019 at 8:27:35 AM UTC-5, Terren Suydam wrote: >> >> One way to get around this is to hold that consciousness is associated >> with the way information is processed. This is substrate independent - the >> fact that a brain is physical is beside the point. You could implement a >> brain in software, and insofar as the same kinds of information processing >> occur, it would be conscious in the same kind of way. >> >> I find this idea compelling because it makes the link between brains and >> consciousness without requiring matter, and provides a framework for >> understanding consciousnesses of other kinds of machines. All that's >> required is to assume there is something it is like for computation to >> occur. >> >> Terren >> >> On Fri, May 3, 2019 at 2:26 AM <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> >>> >>> On Thursday, May 2, 2019 at 8:03:52 PM UTC-5, Brent wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On 5/2/2019 4:55 PM, [email protected] wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Thursday, May 2, 2019 at 5:37:26 PM UTC-5, Brent wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On 5/2/2019 11:39 AM, [email protected] wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Apparently *matter* is not "reducible" to just the physics a couple >>>>> of particles. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Then you're not a materialist. You think there is matter plus >>>>> something else, that everyone calls "mind", but you're going to call it >>>>> "matter" and add it to everyone else's list of matter so you can still >>>>> call >>>>> yourself a materialist. >>>>> >>>>> Brent >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> But everything reducing to the physics of particles is thought of as >>>> *physicalism* (not materialism): >>>> *Physicalism and materialism* >>>> >>>> Reductive physicalism >>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reductive_physicalism>...is normally >>>> assumed to be incompatible with panpsychism. Materialism >>>> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Materialism>, if held to be distinct >>>> from physicalism, is compatible with panpsychism insofar as mental >>>> properties >>>> >>>> >>>> What mental properties? intention? reflection? remembering? That's >>>> what I mean by saying attributing "experience" to matter is an unprincipled >>>> half-measure. >>>> >>>> Brent >>>> >>> >>> >>> Brains are matter, just as livers, legs, trees, tables, rocks, comets, >>> planets, stars, cockroaches, galaxies, bacteria .. are matter. >>> >>> Brains produce intentions, reflections, remembrances, ... . >>> >>> So (at least some) matter of the cosmos has psychical (mental) >>> properties. >>> >>> The body+mind idea, the idea that mind is something separate from body, >>> is perhaps the worst idea ever invented. >>> >>> @philipthrift >>> >>> >>> -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected]. > To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. > Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To post to this group, send email to [email protected]. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/everything-list. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
