On 5/3/2019 8:47 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:
On 3 May 2019, at 14:06, Quentin Anciaux <allco...@gmail.com
<mailto:allco...@gmail.com>> wrote:
Pleasure for the all loving god to have creatures to torture ?
But the problem of evil is not that simple.
Indeed.
But note that just the second theorem of Gödel provides a clue.
With provable(p) written []p
consistent(p) = ~provable(~p) = <>p
f = false, t = true
consistent = ~[]f = <>t = consistent(t),
Gödel’s second I. Theorem, put in equivalent version:
<>t -> ~[]<>t
<>t -> <>~<>t
<>t -> <>[]f
It is that last one where the clue is the more apparent:
Said by PA, or ZF, or any sound Löbian machine: it says the following:
If I am consistent, then it is consistent that I am inconsistent
Notice however that this assumes you know what t and f are. In the
formalism they are just markers that are invariant under the rules of
inference. In the semantics they refer to some model. Beware of the
priest who tells you he knows the real model.
Brent
Or
If I am consistent then it is consistent that I will prove a falsity
Peano arithmetic, or ZF, remains consistent when adding the axiom that
they are (respectively) inconsistent.
Loosely, this says:
If shit does not happen, shit might happen.
This might be part of the shadow explaining the origin of evil ([]f)
in the internal states realised in arithmetic.
Bruno
PS Exercise; show that Gödel’s theorem (in its modal form) is just
Löb’s formula with p replaced by false( f).
Solution: Löb’s formula is []([]p -> p) -> []p,
with p = f, this becomes
[]f([]f -> f) -> []f
Which is, as ~p = (p -> f), obvious by truth table of ~ and ->.
[](~[]f) -> []f
By transposition (using the fact that p -> q is equivalent with ~q ->
~p), we get
~[]f -> ~[](~[]f), or,
by using ~[]p = <>~p, and ~f = t, or ~~p -> p.
<>t -> <>([]f)
Le ven. 3 mai 2019 à 12:46, smitra <smi...@zonnet.nl
<mailto:smi...@zonnet.nl>> a écrit :
What's the point of creating criminals and then to torture those
criminals for eternity in hell?
On 03-05-2019 04:41, Samiya Illias wrote:
> Considering how vast we have come to realise the Universe to be, do
> you honestly think our praise or our insults affect God in any
way? Do
> you even realise how great the Creator of all this must be? Do you
> think God would need any appreciation from us? Rather, it is we who
> need to appreciate God!
>
> God created the entire creation and He governs it flawlessly
according
> to His Laws. The entire creation submits to His Laws, except some
> criminals...
>
> The way I understand it, we, humans and snakes, are criminals
who have
> been contained on a planet. Our collective crime is that we
abused our
> free will to go against the Universal Laws. We have an
appointment, in
> the Divine Court, that will be kept as scheduled. We have been
given a
> temporal life so that each one of us can generate evidence (data:
> speech and deeds) for or against ourselves.
>
> Remembering God through prayer, and Praising God by repeatedly
> declaring that God is free from all imperfection, helps us to
> understand and consequently be pleased with God, contented to
submit
> to His Laws and Decrees, and grateful for the guidance, looking
> forward to an immortal life of luxury and perhaps the most
prestigious
> jobs anyone can ever aspire for: in service of Allah, The One
and Only
> God, The KIng of the Mighty Throne of The Entire Creation!
>
> There is no compulsion to follow God's Laws, but the criminals will
> not be allowed to leave this planet. They will go from living
upon it
> to living within it, in The Fire!
>
> Related Posts [4]
>
> Samiya Illias
> Signs & Science [5]
>
> On Thu, May 2, 2019 at 5:00 PM John Clark <johnkcl...@gmail.com
<mailto:johnkcl...@gmail.com>>
> wrote:
>
>> On Thu, May 2, 2019 at 1:54 AM 'Brent Meeker'
>> <everything-list@googlegroups.com
<mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com>> wrote:
>>
>>>> _ _Islam is a religion based almost entirely on threats.
>>
>> True, but in all fairness Christianity is also based on
threats. It
>> preaches that faith (believing in something when there is no good
>> reason for doing so) is not stupidity but is instead the ultimate
>> virtue, and if you don't believe in all the crap that Christianity
>> (or Islam) says then a good and loving God will torture you most
>> fiendishly not for 10^100 years but for an infinite number of
years.
>> I'm no saint but I wouldn't do that to a unrepentant Hitler,
and yet
>> another thing we're suposed to do is constantly flatter God by
>> telling Him how good He is.
>>
>> The Meaning of Life: Praise the Lord [1]
>>
>> John K Clark
>>
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