On Friday, May 31, 2019 at 5:25:07 AM UTC-5, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > > On 30 May 2019, at 14:32, Philip Thrift <cloud...@gmail.com <javascript:>> > wrote: > > > > On Thursday, May 30, 2019 at 5:18:13 AM UTC-5, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> >> >> >> You told me that consciousness is material. Please extract it from the >> bug, and send me 5g of pure consciousness extract. >> >> I have few doubt that insect and arthropodes have some first person >> (conscious) experience, so if consciousness is material, you should succeed >> in extracting it from the bug. >> >> Bruno >> >> > I'm not a dualist, so there is no *X* is material and *Y* is immaterial > (like ghosts) that make up nature. > > > But a game of bridge is something immaterial, not be confused with its > implementation. I don’t believe in ghost, but I believe in a tun or > immaterial things. Using fictionalism to dismiss the existence of > immaterial thing, like numbers, will make eventually the whole physical > reality, and mathematical reality into fiction, making the term devoid of > meaning. > > Bruno > > > A game a bridge - I suppose as something literally defined with words and symbols in a book on bridge - can be seen as some sort of algorithm or (dynamic) mathematical structure even. There are probably fictional board games in fantasy literature - like Game of Thrones - which could be taken and tuned into games people could play.
But these are not immaterial from the fictionalist standpoint, just as one can take the fictional Sherlock Homes in a Arthur Conan Doyle text and make a stage play to "realize" the characters. You don't like fictionalism, and you won't like this either, but it is an interesting alternative. ttp://phil.elte.hu/leszabo/Preprints/szabo-math_in_physical-v2.pdf If physicalism is true, everything is physical. In other words, everything supervenes on, or is necessitated by, the physical. Accordingly, if there are logical/mathematical facts, they must be necessitated by the physical facts of the world. The aim of this paper is to clarify what logical/mathematical facts actually are and how these facts can be accommodated in a purely physical ontology No matter how one obscures things, to see things as some being material and some being immaterial is dualism. There is no way to wiggle out of that. @philipthrift -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/6478ac38-9796-4511-950a-e042885613af%40googlegroups.com.
