> On 31 May 2019, at 23:45, Philip Thrift <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > On Friday, May 31, 2019 at 4:06:31 PM UTC-5, Brent wrote: > > > On 5/31/2019 6:37 AM, Philip Thrift wrote: >> >> >> On Friday, May 31, 2019 at 5:25:07 AM UTC-5, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> >>> On 30 May 2019, at 14:32, Philip Thrift <[email protected] <>> wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> On Thursday, May 30, 2019 at 5:18:13 AM UTC-5, Bruno Marchal wrote: >>> >>> >>> You told me that consciousness is material. Please extract it from the bug, >>> and send me 5g of pure consciousness extract. >>> >>> I have few doubt that insect and arthropodes have some first person >>> (conscious) experience, so if consciousness is material, you should succeed >>> in extracting it from the bug. >>> >>> Bruno >>> >>> >>> I'm not a dualist, so there is no X is material and Y is immaterial (like >>> ghosts) that make up nature. >> >> But a game of bridge is something immaterial, not be confused with its >> implementation. I don’t believe in ghost, but I believe in a tun or >> immaterial things. Using fictionalism to dismiss the existence of immaterial >> thing, like numbers, will make eventually the whole physical reality, and >> mathematical reality into fiction, making the term devoid of meaning. >> >> Bruno >> >> >> >> A game a bridge - I suppose as something literally defined with words and >> symbols in a book on bridge - can be seen as some sort of algorithm or >> (dynamic) mathematical structure even. There are probably fictional board >> games in fantasy literature - like Game of Thrones - which could be taken >> and tuned into games people could play. >> >> But these are not immaterial from the fictionalist standpoint, just as one >> can take the fictional Sherlock Homes in a Arthur Conan Doyle text and make >> a stage play to "realize" the characters. >> >> >> You don't like fictionalism, and you won't like this either, but it is an >> interesting alternative. >> >> ttp://phil.elte.hu/leszabo/Preprints/szabo-math_in_physical-v2.pdf >> <http://phil.elte.hu/leszabo/Preprints/szabo-math_in_physical-v2.pdf> >> >> If physicalism is true, everything is physical. In other words, everything >> supervenes on, or is necessitated by, the physical. Accordingly, if there >> are logical/mathematical facts, they must be necessitated by the physical >> facts of the world. The aim of this paper is to clarify what >> logical/mathematical facts actually are and how these facts can be >> accommodated in a purely physical ontology > > Interesting explication of the materialist view of mathematics. I notice > that he didn't directly consider Goedel's idea that arithmetic has true > propositions that can't be proven. I can see that he could create a > hierarchy of formal systems in which the natural numbers would be another > formal system which the semantics of PA refer to. But are the natural > numbers a formal system...or do they have to be formalized in order to serve > as a model? > > Brent > > > One way I can see to proceed materially is to assume that physical ITTMs can > be produced > > Infinite-Time Turing Machines > Joel David Hamkins, Andy Lewis > https://arxiv.org/abs/math/9808093 <https://arxiv.org/abs/math/9808093> > > or something like that where literally infinite-in-length proofs can be > "written". > > > Or better, some sort of Löbian Theorem Prover which does complete in finite > time with finite resources. > > Parametric Bounded Löb’s Theorem and RobustCooperation of Bounded Agents > Andrew Critch > https://intelligence.org/files/ParametricBoundedLobsTheorem.pdf > > Löb’s theorem and Gödel’s theorem make predictions about the behavior of > self-reflective systems with unbounded computational resources with which to > write and evaluate proofs. However, in the real world, self-reflective systems > will have limited memory and processing speed, so in this paper we introduce > an effective version of Löb’s theorem theorem which is applicable given such > bounded resources. These results have powerful implications for the game > theory of bounded agents who are able to write proofs about themselves and > one another, including the capacity to out-perform classical Nash equilibria.
Interesting. Löb’s result are even more fundamental for the … fundamental studies, but I don’t claim it is only its main application. Bruno > > @philipthrift > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]>. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/e8676a27-a2b2-45a3-a3d6-5cbc6fc5b3e7%40googlegroups.com > > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/e8676a27-a2b2-45a3-a3d6-5cbc6fc5b3e7%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/19E4DF0F-6321-4D56-8FEC-3A04FFDCFE19%40ulb.ac.be.
