On Tuesday, June 18, 2019 at 1:00:22 PM UTC-5, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > > On 18 Jun 2019, at 14:37, 'Cosmin Visan' via Everything List < > everyth...@googlegroups.com <javascript:>> wrote: > > Self-reference is not the same as recursion. I invite you to read my paper > "The Self-Referential Aspect of Consciousness", or for the full picture my > book "I Am": https://philpeople.org/profiles/cosmin-visan > <https://www.google.com/url?q=https%3A%2F%2Fphilpeople.org%2Fprofiles%2Fcosmin-visan&sa=D&sntz=1&usg=AFQjCNH8zIW3CKxW-uxjZhkoxGCZrjWR3Q> > > > As I said already, you are right. What you describe is the “first person > self-reference”. This one is indeed not directly amenable to recursion, > neither through the first recursion theorem, still less with the second > recursion theorem. > > But the first person reference is offered freely by arithmetic by > identifying the soul and the knower in arithmetic. The consistency is given > that this self-reference does not give an name to the subject, except “I”, > which is not definable except by local self-pointing relatively to others > FAPP. > > It is the subject of the experience, the inner god, the soul, the one got > by []p & p, and []p & <>t & p. They are provably not definable in the > language of that machine, but she can, like us, bet on mechanism, bet on > its consistency (with precautions) and say “yes” to the doctor, knowing > that she does not know what she is doing. > > The beauty is that G* proves that []p is equivalent with the two variants > above, but G does not prove it, and the machine is condemned to conflicting > logics and mathematics about itself, enforcing a deepening of the > self-observation. > > You seem to want to communicate a (plausibly partially correct) insight, > instead of looking for some theory explaining that’s insight, and the rest. > > Bruno > >
* It is the subject of the experience ... got by []p & p, and []p & <>t & p. * Here, as I've written about before, you have the semantics of the language on the left (*the experience*) and the modal language on the right. The modal language (an expression and all its sequents) may be the (or an) extrinsic description of the experience, but the latter is he real thing. @philipthrift -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/5de74ecc-c72f-4bbd-b148-66e792c35e6a%40googlegroups.com.
