> On 19 Jun 2019, at 22:50, 'Cosmin Visan' via Everything List > <[email protected]> wrote: > > "First person self-reference" is a pleonasm. Self-reference IS first person. > Anything else, "3rd person bla-bla", is just words-play.
When a program output its code, or use it during a computation: it is third person self-reference. When a human say I have two legs, it is FAPP, third person reference, although with mechanism, at some point this too is “really” only a first person plural self-reference. Pure first person self-reference is a subtler notion, and it took me sometime to see that Theaetetus' attempt to define it works well in arithmetic thanks to incompleteness. Incompleteness refutes Socrates critic of Theaetetus. First person self-reference happens when a human say I feel pain in my leg, even if he has no leg. It refers to our own private subjective experience. It is not word play: it is arithmetic, and those nuances apply provably to us (when assuming Mechanism). Bruno > > On Tuesday, 18 June 2019 21:00:22 UTC+3, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > As I said already, you are right. What you describe is the “first person > self-reference”. > > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]>. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/03af4141-2b5c-404a-a2de-32eb7a272d94%40googlegroups.com > > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/03af4141-2b5c-404a-a2de-32eb7a272d94%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/3DC8A89B-7189-4394-96C0-1520272DA9E6%40ulb.ac.be.
