So Feyerabend can't tell ISIS from NASA or the National Academy of
Science from the Papacy.
Brent
On 6/24/2019 10:09 PM, Philip Thrift wrote:
"Feyerabend felt that science started as a liberating movement, but
over time it had become increasingly dogmatic and rigid, and therefore
had become increasingly an ideology and despite its successes science
had started to attain some oppressive features, and it was not
possible [any longer] to come up with an unambiguous way to
distinguish science from religion."
/Epistemological anarchism/
From Wikipedia
@philipthrift
On Monday, June 24, 2019 at 6:04:04 PM UTC-5, Lawrence Crowell wrote:
I think one could be most on the mark by calling this "how bad
money chases out good money." I joined this list last fall, and in
the last couple of months it seems to have fallen over to various
humbugs promoting nonsense. these threads of late have degenerated
into pure rubbish, bad thinking chasing out good thinking.
LC
On Sunday, June 23, 2019 at 10:46:37 AM UTC-5, John Clark wrote:
I changed the title of this thread, I don't even know what the
old one means.
On Sun, Jun 23, 2019 at 8:31 AM Bruno Marchal
<[email protected]> wrote:
> /the natural transplant you mention might be the result of
an analog, continuous process./It would make a difference
if all the decimals plays a role in consciousness.
Even if you ignore the fact that it has been experimentally
proven that Bell's Inequality is violated and you claim there
if a difference between one Hydrogen atom and another, that is
to say somewhere along that infinite sequence of digits there
is a difference, what you say makes no sense. The atoms in my
brain HAVE been replaced and yet I know for a FACT I have
survived; I *don't* knowfor a fact that the same is true for
you but I think it's reasonable to assume it is. So even if
there is something analog going on inside an atom, if we're
talking about consciousness and survival it's irrelevant.
/>Of course, Darwin theory of evolution would become
inconsistent, but logically, we cannot exclude the
possibility/
If a mathematical statement, even a well formed grammatically
correct one, contradicts a well established observation then
it would be logical to conclude the statement does not
correspond with reality; after all every language can write
fiction as well as nonfiction. The fiction could be fun to
read and the very best might even have some sort of vague
poetic relationship to a truth, but there is not a literal
correspondence to reality.
>> Even if a Hydrogen atom has some secret analog
process going on inside of it when one atom gets
replaced by another atom, that is to say when one
analog process gets replaced by another analog
process, I *STILL* survive.
/> That is the mechanist assumption. You can truncate the
infinite decimal expansion in the analog process running a
brain./
It's not an assumption it's a *OBSERVATION*! Atoms in my brain
have been replaced many many times and yet my consciousness
has continued. My only *ASSUMPTION* is thatyou are like me and
are also conscious.
>> So that hypothetical secret mysterious analog process
is the Hydrogen atom's business not mine, it has
nothing to do with me.
/> Assuming that you substitution level is above the
truncation of the decimals used in the atom. But a non
computationalist can assert that his consciousness
requires all decimals.
/
Then the non computationalist must logically conclude that he
is not conscious. I thought solipsists were bad but at least
they thought they were conscious even if nobody else was, but
your non computationalist doesn't even think he is conscious.
How a non conscious person is able to think of anything I will
leave as an exercise for the reader.
>>> In which theory?
>> In the very controversial theory that says if I have
observed X then I have observed X.
/>You cannot observe a philosophical assumption.
/
You can observe that a philosophical assumption is dead wrong,
such as the philosophical assumption that an infinite string
of digits in an analog process is always needed to continue
consciousness.
>> Proof is not the ultimate, direct experience outranks
it, and I have direct experience I have survived
despite numerous brain transplant operations.
> /Yes, and that is good for you,//but/ [...]
But nothing! It's good enough for me to say yes to the doctor
and it's good enough for me to say yes to being frozen. And if
your experience has been similar to mine, if your
consciousness has also continued despite your many brain
transplant operations, and if you are a true fan of logic,
then you must conclude it's good enough for you too.
/> Personal experience is not available when doing science,/
True, and that is exactly why no consciousness theory ever
devised is scientific, and none every will be. But theories
about how intelligence works are most certainly scientific.
>> It doesn't matter if I can communicate my reason for
saying yes to the doctor (or yes to being frozen). I
have no obligation to justify my actions to you or
anybody; based on the evidence I have at my command it
is the logical thing to do.
> /Personally, perhaps. Not sure about the guy above, though./
I'm not sure about the other guy either, he might be a zombie
for all I know, everybody except me might be, all I know for
certain is I'm not. The other guy is going to have to make his
own decision, I can't help him, nobody can.
John K Clark
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