On Monday, July 15, 2019 at 6:31:51 AM UTC-5, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > > On 14 Jul 2019, at 11:53, Philip Thrift <[email protected] <javascript:>> > wrote: > > > If brains (or future biomachines) are standard Turing, then we can make a > conscious robot out of standard processors. > > > OK. > > The expression is a bit fuzzy. I would say that we can make a physical > robot capable of manifesting consciousness relatively to us. > > This is needed to avoid the idea that it is the physical activity in the > brain robot which would “create” consciousness. The consciousness of the > robot is eventually explained by (infinitely many) number relations, which > are independent of time, physics, etc. > > That is the great leap of faith. > > > I can agree, yes. That is why I insist all the time that Mechanism is an > hypothesis, first in the cognitive science, then in metaphysics. > > Anyone asserting that science has proven Mechanism, or that we know that > Mechanism is true is a con scientist. The machine already know this. > > Panpsychism is the conservative view that only with particular material > complexes consciousness exits. > > > My goal is to figure out what is matter and where it comes from. That is > one of the main reason why I do not assume matter at the start. I don’t > know what it is, and I doubt it exists ontologically, especially once you > know that the tiny very elementary part of arithmetic emulate *all* > computations, in a redundant fashion with a precise mathematical structure > (indeed seemingly rather close to what quantum mechanics already seem to > described, but that will need infinitely many confirmation, like all thesis > on some reality. > > One can simulate thermonuclear fusion in a supercomputer, but it's not > real. Same with consciousness. > > > Assuming non mechanism, and assuming a primary physical reality, you are > right, but out of the scope of my working hypothesis. > > Bruno > > >
For Galen Strawson (NYTimes op-ed) 1. Consciousness Isn’t a Mystery. It’s Matter. <https://www.nytimes.com/2016/05/16/opinion/consciousness-isnt-a-mystery-its-matter.html> In any case, matter is a mystery. For Kant, it is unexplainable. Perhaps it will be forever unexplainable (and surprising). But arithmetic is also a mystery (Gregory Chaitin) The Limits of Reason <http://www.cs.virginia.edu/~robins/The_Limits_of_Reason_Chaitin_2006.pdf> So we may never know anything, we can just be and do. @philipthrift -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/e14f420c-f084-43b5-a040-aa4788c0cf86%40googlegroups.com.
