> On 4 Sep 2019, at 17:43, PGC <[email protected]> wrote: > > > > On Wednesday, September 4, 2019 at 4:52:58 PM UTC+2, Bruno Marchal wrote: > >> On 2 Sep 2019, at 21:48, Philip Thrift <[email protected] <javascript:>> >> wrote: >> >> >> >> On Monday, September 2, 2019 at 10:57:50 AM UTC-5, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> >>> On 1 Sep 2019, at 17:58, John Clark <[email protected] <>> wrote: >>> >>> >>> I'm saying there is no such thing as numbers >> >> >> Explain this to my tax inspector! >> >> >> Bruno >> >> >> >> But there would be no tax collectors if such people had not come into being >> (evolution from matter). > > Without number, there would be no tax, nor tax inspector. > > I am agnostic on matter, and as a researcher in the fundamental field, I > prefer to avoid an ontological commitment unless shown necessary. > > Which makes you fictionalist, despite your horror at my suggestion of this > being the case 5 years ago. Refer to the Philip's link to fictionalism again > if this is unclear: > https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/fictionalism-mathematics/ > <https://www.google.com/url?q=https%3A%2F%2Fplato.stanford.edu%2Fentries%2Ffictionalism-mathematics%2F&sa=D&sntz=1&usg=AFQjCNFzxcVQuPMtlKeg1K66ix2tOuluDQ> > > > Unless you provide evidence to refute those arguments and convince > Philosophers and linguists of the oh-so-innocent ontology from high school of > merely "2+2 = 4", with as many time- and spaceless deities as there are > natural numbers at the very least... only those affected by the pleasantness > of platonism will remain innocent clients. These types of argument are rather > aesthetic, which is outside your field. >
I thought you were open to Platonism. The Stanford entry qualify the planet Mars as a physical object, as opposed to the number 3 qualified as abstract object. But “3” is far more concrete than “Mars”. The whole entry is based on H. Field materialism, which is refuted when we assume Mechanism. > > > >> >> So arithmetic reality depends on there being stuff to fabricate >> arithmetic-computing devices. > > > Physical computer are universal machine only in virtue of the fact that some > subset of the physical laws can implement the universal machine discovered by > Turing in math, and mathematically, and eventually shown by Kleene, based on > Gödel 1931, to be an arithmetical notion. > > I can explain to you a tun of arithmetical proposition, without the need to > assume anything in physics, > > If you can demonstrate a means to do so without people having to: drink > water, go to the bathroom, employ physical medicine for survival and/or not > eat meals/consume other physical resources for extended periods of time: do > it. We'd be rid of world hunger with the great imaterialism, right? PGC That is a confusion of level. Group theory does not presuppose anything physical, but of course *teaching group theory to humans” requires room, chalk, classroom, blackboard, water. And, no, ridding word hunger needs physical actions, but of course that does not mean that the physical action are irreducibly physical. Using first order logic clarifies all this. We have axioms, and we deduce from the use of the axioms. We can count the number of time which axioms are used, and number theory, group theory, etc. do not use any axioms in physics. Bruno > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]>. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/fe813cd1-2f09-4a66-a0ec-10d4cebf44f1%40googlegroups.com > > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/fe813cd1-2f09-4a66-a0ec-10d4cebf44f1%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/D18E11E2-6967-4E05-82CB-3C85CC3B7F3F%40ulb.ac.be.
