On Friday, September 20, 2019 at 6:01:41 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > > On 18 Sep 2019, at 21:15, Alan Grayson <[email protected] <javascript:>> > wrote: > > > > On Wednesday, September 18, 2019 at 3:01:23 AM UTC-6, Bruce wrote: >> >> On Wed, Sep 18, 2019 at 6:33 PM Alan Grayson <[email protected]> wrote: >> >>> On Tuesday, September 17, 2019 at 1:08:16 AM UTC-6, Alan Grayson wrote: >>>> >>>> On Tuesday, September 17, 2019 at 1:02:39 AM UTC-6, Bruce wrote: >>>>> >>>>> On Tue, Sep 17, 2019 at 4:51 PM Alan Grayson <[email protected]> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> On Monday, September 16, 2019 at 3:54:46 PM UTC-6, John Clark wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Mon, Sep 16, 2019 at 9:22 AM Alan Grayson <[email protected]> >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> *> When physics began to give non-intuitive results, in QM >>>>>>>> and Relativity, people when overboard. Now any patently absurd result >>>>>>>> finds >>>>>>>> its justification among true believers.* >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> And in this context "patently absurd" means odd, not logically >>>>>>> contradictory not paradoxical not contrary to experimental results, >>>>>>> just >>>>>>> odd. But as far as we know there is no law that says nature can't >>>>>>> behave in >>>>>>> ways that humans find odd. >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Many "odd" results are now mainstream, but MWI is bridge too far, way >>>>>> too far IMO. Why don't you just accept that the wf is simply irrelevant >>>>>> after the measurement occurs like in the horserace example?. Here, >>>>>> there's >>>>>> no collapse, no many worlds, no need to explain where the energy comes >>>>>> from >>>>>> which defines these worlds, and so forth? AG >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Except that horses and horse races do not interfere (except in >>>>> Australia, where several jockeys and trainers have recently been >>>>> suspended >>>>> for unauthorised interference -- but that is a different matter!) >>>>> >>>>> Bruce >>>>> >>>> >>>> I know. I was just being illustrative. But note that Carroll says much >>>> the same thing when he says worlds are created when you make a left or >>>> right turn, or flip a coin (or some equivalent analogy). AG >>>> >>> >>> But suppose you flip a coin and while it's in the air, you write its wf. >>> Since the prevailing belief is that all objects are quantum objects, why >>> can't one suppose that the two terms in the superposition, head and tail, >>> manifest quantum interference? AG >>> >> >> Why can't one observe a superposition of a live cat and a dead cat? The >> problem is decoherence, and coin tosses are totally decohered -- no quantum >> superpositions left. So one is reduced to standard classical ignorance >> probability . >> >> Bruce >> > > Yes, you're getting to the core of the issue, and there's more here then > (than?) meets the eye, at least mine. It seems that quantum superpositions > depend on isolation and are destroyed by entanglements, > > > How could ever something destroyed an entanglement? >
*I think any entanglement can be destroyed, or undone, by isolating a system. AG * > > On the contrary, the entailment with an observer will just put the > observer in a superposition state himself, and then assuming mechanism, you > get the “illusion” of a collapse, without any need of collapse. > > Everett “many-worlds” is just the rather natural (for monist at least) > idea that a physicist obeys to the laws of physics. > > Bruno > > > > but exactly why that's the case remains obscure. And these entanglements > also connect the micro to the macro. AG > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "Everything List" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to [email protected] <javascript:>. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/c7e0194c-57fd-4eeb-8d17-d37f33936918%40googlegroups.com > > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/c7e0194c-57fd-4eeb-8d17-d37f33936918%40googlegroups.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer> > . > > > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Everything List" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to [email protected]. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/everything-list/257d1ad3-e7d4-4a18-a31e-82a9b7266777%40googlegroups.com.
